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Amway (Pyramid Scheme)

What is the fastest way to loose your all your friends and acquaintances?

Join a Pyramid Scheme like Amway or GoldQuest
You need to be a fool to pay money to enroll into one, and then to recover from your losses, you push 10 more of your friends down the same path. What you don’t realize it that in this quest, you have bugged 100 of your acquaintance and not only pitched the idea unsuccessfully, but irritated them so much that they will never ever again talk to you.

According to wiki:

“A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, usually without any product or service being delivered.”

Common traits:
* A highly excited sales pitch, the whole time the presenter will try to sell you an idea of becoming an entrepreneur, having others earn for you etc, but he will never bother to tell you what work?
* Little to no information offered about the company unless an investor purchases the products and becomes a participant.
* Vaguely phrased promises of limitless income potential.
* No product, or a product being sold at a price ridiculously in excess of its real market value. As with the company, the product is vaguely described.
* An income stream that chiefly depends on the commissions earned by enrolling new members or the purchase by members of products for their own use rather than sales to customers who are not participants in the scheme.

Pyramid schemes work on a simple principle:
Enroll a fool and rob him by asking him to pay an exorbitantly high membership fee or buy some trinkets. Then make your customer your employee. By paying him a small fraction of the revenues, ask him to rope in his entire friend circle.
If you happen to be trapped in one such presentation, then you will realize that the whole time the presenter will talk irrelevant stuff.

Here is how my meeting went:
1) He will say how a bottle of cold-drink/greeting card which costs 10/- in retail actually costs a few paise to manufacture and rest all the markup is because of the distribution costs.
Well if you do want me to be a salesman, then please do bring your product catalog…. but you will never get a chance to see it. Also you would realize that even though he is a salesman for the same company, his intentions is not to sell you its products… his sole intention is to enroll you as a member.

2) Then he will keep on going about how life of a salaried guy sucks and he does not get due compensation for the business he brings to the company
well sir, I earn a 7 digit salary (INR), so I am not complaining and if you do have a solid business plan, then do explain it to me… but then you will realize that all he wants to do is touch your emotional chords.. he has nothing substantial to explain.

3) He will keep on saying, if you enroll in members, that you will get a commission from the business they bring….
Well sounds exciting, but what is the business? how do you guys make money… all you will get is silence.

4) Then he will draw complicated diagrams explaining how you will earn money etc.
Here you will realize that none of it revolves any logical business. I agree you were a fool to enroll in the first place, but that does not mean that the world has an endless supply of fools to rob from? After all the fool and his money soon part, so my probability of finding one in time is really bleak.

5) Then he will go on and explain how big the company is, how much is its revenue etc.
Good, so the company has already cornered the entire business space… now how will I find room for expanding.

All they are selling is the idea to get rich without putting in efforts. Well there is nothing like a free lunch.
If you know one, then please let me know.

171 replies on “Amway (Pyramid Scheme)”

The vision of Amway is to remove the advertisements, and reduce the unnecessary expenditure which do not value to the product, and pass that money to the people who recommend the products to others.

But, what people present in their presentations is completely different. They try to project it like, you can become millionaire easily, and they show pyramid scheme, which has many pit-falls.

The vision of Amway is good, but it is not to replace the job or to become millionaire easily.

Amway/Quixtar people are to be avoided like the plague. It probably works for people who are easily blinded by bling-bling or are fascinated by bright, shiny objects. It’s hard to admit that you’ve been taken for a ride, so the next best solution is to rope in your friends because then you get a group of fools.

I don’t know whether you attended their products demos/talks conducted by Amway, and NOT by BWW (Britt Worldwide). If you attend their demos/talks, then you will come to know the quality of the products, why they appear to be so expensive, but not expensive, how they are different from all other products that are available on the market. Their products are world class products.

Of course, Absolutely NOBODY talks about these things (which is the actual core business) in any of their meetings/talks. Very few people (people like me 😉 ) comes to know about the talks conducted by Amway without joining, and among those even very few people (again like me) will attend those.

In all their meetings, they just talk about pyramid model, and other useless stuff. Amway is getting the bad name for this, where as the bad name should go to BWW, which is actually conducting all these meetings, and brainstorming people to go in the pyramid structure only.

Amazing. Absolutely Amazing. Your headline the site “amway (pyramid scheme)” and then give a definition of “pyramid scheme” – yet it completely and utterly seems to have escaped your notice that the definition doesn’t at all fit Amway!!

Dude, in Amway you make no money at all by just enrolling people. None. Zip. Zero. Product has to be bought and sold to an end consumer, and renumeration is entirely paid based on the amount of product sold.

http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com
http://www.amwaywiki.com

//but i guess they were hired by Amway to represent them….//

Amway does not hire any one to represent them. BWW is a completely different organization and conducts those meetings. Amway conducts only presentations of their products, and not anything else. Where as, BWW does everything else.

Of course, BWW is not a rogue organization, but it is the one which decides how to present, and it is the one which fools others with the pyramid schemes.

Amway says, if you/your team does this much sales, then you will get this much money as commission. Where as, BWW tells the same thing in completely different way. That makes people to lose faith on Amway. IMHO, Amway is very good for business people who sell products, and may not be good for high salaried employees.

Probably, this would be my last post on this topic.

I have a few products, and I am not an expert in advertising or publicity etc. So, I say that, I will give A% commission, if you make sales of B, and C% commission, if you make sales of D, and so on. If somebody wants to become rich easily, and projects it differently, it is not my problem. What I care is, whether I am making sales or not. That’s it. I don’t care how the person brings sales to me, as long as every month I can sell my goods. Why should I bother about how others are creating business out of this. If a person thinks with common sense, they will understand that I am just selling my goods, and offering some commission towards that. I am not making any promises that you will become a millionaire immediately. I clearly say that, you will get 20% commission, only if you bring atleast Rs.5 lakh worth of sales to me (another common sense point is, if you use others in getting that much sales, you will have to give some portion of that commission to your team members). If you don’t like my products, don’t buy. As any manufacturer tells, I also tell just use my products once, and if you don’t like don’t use.

If some random person makes false promises, and says I am bad, and if thousands of other people start saying I am bad, what should I do? I don’t want to comment on that, because, you can do this kind of business in both positive and negative directions. For a small business man, this may be an excellent opportunity, and for a software engineer this may suck big time. I will only say that, if you bring this much sales to me, you will earn this much commission. Now, it is at the discretion of the common man to decide whether they can do that or not. If they think they can do it, join us, otherwise, do not join us.

Amway is also doing just like this. It is not making any promises. It is just telling what will one get, if they make sales of their products. Where as BWW is projecting in different way.

Amway is the biggest cheat under the sun. There purpose is just to fool as many people as possible by promising them heaven. I have seen the business and the people involved in it very closely. I was into it for 2 months..

Even if we agree to Mr. Satish’s comments, no one in Amway has made money without fooling and cheating his friends/acquaintances. They will sell u a sachet of shampoo, which should come at Rs. 3-4, at Rs. 10-12, after a few days will ask you did you use it, how did it feel? If you say that yes I did, they will immediately say.. yes, I can see that.. your hair is looking softer than before… hahaha.. and all these tricks are taught in their product demo sessions..

I tell you, no body has made money in Amway without cheating others, either at the time of enrolling them into the business or at the time of selling them the bloody products..

//Probably, this would be my last post on this topic.//
your comments/critics r always welcome.

I totally agree to your explanation of direct marketing and the benefits it brings (both to the customers and to the marketers)

// Amway is also doing just like this. It is not making any promises. It is just telling what will one get, if they make sales of their products. Where as BWW is projecting in different way.//
I totally agree to that, What I am unable to understand is that if BWW is bringing so much bad name to this organization, then why is Amway not putting a stop to it?
It would be wrong to take a stance that I will take a cut of all the revenues which BWW is bringing, but I would like to be isolated from the controversy it is creating.
The only popular way to become a part of Amway in India is through BWW.

@brajesh….
I was forced to attend 2 meetings of Amway and wasted a lot of time there.. But luckily i did not loose money (or become a member)
but i agree, a lot of amway members share your feelings.

Ankur,
This pyramid structure is also called as the “money chain” in some parts of the country.

I lost friends because they asked me to join and I didn’t ! 🙂
Well it won’t take a mathematician to find out that this wouldn’t make u a millionarire that quickly.
They would explain it like this
Ask 4 of your friends to join, and each four would find another 4, so its a geometric progression. The agent would also tell you that you will start earning from the fourth or the fifth level,
Lets do a simple math.

1 (you) + 4 (Your four friends) + 4^2 (their 16 friends)+ 4^3 + 4^4 + 4^5 !!!
This adds up to 1365 !!!!!!
Do you really think that your circle of 4 friends have another 1361 close friends of their own, whom they can convince to join this?
So the chain will stop when it reaches the 3rd level or so.. and most of them would be poor by the time they realize that they were cheated !
The agent who started this would be laughing all the way to the bank !

When I said ‘Do you really think…. ?”. I was not trying to say that you (ankur) believed in this !! That ‘you’ was targeted to the ppl who believes that this could make them rich !! 🙂

@xylene…
thank you 🙂 for your comments….

//I lost friends because they asked me to join and I didn’t !//
same here… whats worse is that i got so much bugged up with one of them that i ridiculed him.. and he has not talked to me since

//1 (you) + 4 (Your four friends) + 4^2 (their 16 friends)+ 4^3 + 4^4 + 4^5 !!!
This adds up to 1365 !!!!!!/
i thought i would put in maths or a diagram of pyramid… but then decided against it because it might make it too technical… but thanks for putting in a simple way.
BTW have u heard of the soap called 6 degrees… they have a theory that every man is connected to another one in this planet with a simple chain of at max 6 people.

It’s a stupid concept that, if you join, reduces you to look at people (your friends) as $$$ rather than human beings. It’s a good example of how greed can (and does) change people’s perspective and how they view others.

@Ankur,
I tried explaining to my friends with this math, but none cared !! (they said I was making it too complicated 🙂 )
I heard about 6 Degrees. But havent seen it.
About my friends who joined it, they are regreting it ever since !! 😉

One of my ex-colleague joined quest and was pursuing me to join. I said I will think over it and tell me. But after reading this blog I should rethink. Joining amount is whopping 32K and they will accept only credit card transactions

@ Ankur:
Vary nicely summed up about amway!! about the six degree seperation read this-
http://theantisensestrand.wordpress.com/2008/01/08/shilpa-shetty-to-andrew-symonds-six-degrees-of-separation/

@Satish:
I am sure Amway is not a bad company and their products are not at all of any lower quality. however the price they charge is exorbitant compared to prices in indian market. So i wont like to buy the product, instead i would become member and force my frnds to buy it (thats what ppl think before joining). and once i become the member, i find it weird when people stop talking to you after one or two talks of buying this product.

“Amazing. Absolutely Amazing. Your headline the site “amway (pyramid scheme)” and then give a definition of “pyramid scheme” – yet it completely and utterly seems to have escaped your notice that the definition doesn’t at all fit Amway!!”

You sniffing glue? The amway opportunity has many characteristics of a pyramid scheme. The emphasis is on recruiting. The thing that allows it to be legal is that you don’t get a direct payment for recruiting. But you don’t get rich without recruiting, at least not in this business.

writing something on internet is like writing something on public toilet walls, what cerdibility these guys have to talk nabout the business…when world’s greatest financial planner like John sestina, nobel prize nominees are building the business…chose from whom you listen…all these people who wrote stupid stuff on the net are like broke people..working hard for somebody else, getting up every single…yes sir, sorry sir, types…donot listen to stupid comments…evaluate the business yourself..go to http://www.forbes.com
check out the credentials of the business..decide. amway is the best business model..ethically designed…if you donot understand the business that itself shows how stupid all these people are…donot take opinions from employees…opinions are like armpits…every has it..usually they stink….

@cam…
that is a very acidic comment. but thanks for dropping by.

i am not financially broke, all i am doing here is ask the questions that came to my mind over an hour presentation given by an Amway guy

Cam says quixtar is the “best business model? Care to explain why? Almost everyone loses money in quixtar so how can you justify it as the “best”? My neighbor’s kid running a lemonade stand probably makes more money than quixtar salespeople.

You talk about the internet being the public toilet walls? I guess that goes for thesbiznow?

John Sestina – ah yes, a guy who’s in Amway calls it the best business. No conflict of interest there. Also, if he can’t be the best financial planner if he thinks Amway is the best opportunity out there.

Yes, do run when you see a quixtar criminal coming. “Do not seek the treasure!” I have a son and daughter in law who have scammed my wife into the “business” and conned her into buying several thousand dollars worth of crummy core products (which are rotting on the back porch at present).

Worse even still is that these Quixtarded scammers have convinced her to come out to California and be Nanny to their two Quixtar orphans. I tried and cried to keep her from going, but off she went with her dog and car. They do no care that she is a senior citizen or that her health is being ruined by the stress of doing everything in their dysfunctional household just so they can work their jobs and scam their neighbors around the clock.

I want my wife home and I have done all I can to reveal the deception to her. These people are badly in need of an A&E Intervention. I could just pull my hair out! They’ve made me a victim of this pyramid scheme and I’m not going to take it lying down. Every chance I get, I am going to give these Quixtar liars and crooks a black eye. This pyramid cannot crumble quickly enough!

Business Techniques of Network marketing

This is regarding one of the leading Network marketing companies in India – Amway.
My best friend (and room mate) has recently (a few months ago) joined in amway.
From him I came to know the following facts.

You have to pay Rs 4,500/- for joining and you will be getting of product worth Rs 2,500/-

Cheating No 1:

The remaining 2000 rupees will be giving to the person, who introduced you in this business, in the form of gift. (If you are an Amway member and some one joined under you, you will be getting a gift of worth 2000)

Cheating No 2:

After joining to Amway, you will be identifying that you are cheated. So you will be trying to cheat someone else.

Soon after you joined, they will be inviting you for a meeting or get together.

Cheating No 3:

After reaching the get together venue you will be identifying that you have to pay a registration charge.

Also they will be introducing you a magazine which contains all the description about the Amway product… You have to buy that magazine by giving money.

From the meeting venue, they will be demonstrating about their products, egg: BIO-C, which is an anti oxidant, agent.

In this demonstration they will be adding tincture-iodine to a cup of rice, as an effect, the color of the rice gets changed to brown. After that, they will be poring BIO-C, water into it, then the rice will be getting his normal color back.

Here my question is that – Where is oxidation happening in this demonstration? Does Tincture-iodine is an oxidation agent?

Now about their Products ……
Does Amway products are really worth for the prize?

Omega-3 fatty Oil – Amway dealers are claiming that this oil is available only in a fish that are in Atlantic Ocean. But the truth is that Oega-3 fatty oil is available in almost all fishes…expectedly small fishes.

I am a quixtar critic. I agree that anyone approached by these Quixtar cult members should explain to them plainly why their business is bad, for any and all the criticisms expounded in this blog. I would also encourage any and all commenting on this blog to also leave your thoughts on the pro-Quixtar sights so as to possibly save a few lost souls from the evil that is Quixtar.

woman w … people can be delusional. I’m exactly who I said I am, an IBO, and not some paid PR hack, and that makes me a fraud?

BTW, I am most certainly not a “failed IBO”, you completely made that part up. Just because neither you nor Larsen know what level I’ve reached doesn’t mean I’ve failed. Try again dude. Interesting though that you believe that if I’m a “failed IBO” that means I’m a fraud … doesn’t that mean Scott Larsen of AMQUIX is a fraud, since he *is* a failed IBO? And “Joecool” and “Rocket” and “Truth” and all these other “failed” IBOs who are critics.

http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com

ibofightback, since you claim you are not a failed ibo, care to inform us what you have achieved in amway? I think your the delusional one thinking your successful in amway when you haven’t done shet in five years.

I don’t think Larsen, joecool, rocket, or truth are failed IBO’s. They just realized
that amway sucks. Thats something you FAILED to do and what’s more, without proof that it works, you continue to promote amway like you’r life depends on it. Why is that?

all your dirty conversations shows how ignorant guys are around…..if something is illegal how can they be awarded with 5 start A+ ratings..by forbes. If you work hard you make money in amway..if you want to sit on ur bean bag & laze around amway kit doesnot give you anything. Most of the people whom you call as failed IBOs are those who havenot done anything after getting registed. Two people would have told NO..so they think amway doesnot work….success comes to those who work hard. First of all I would like to end my converstaion here..because I feel, If i fight with a pig, both of us get dirty, but pig loves it…..all the best…keep commenting on Amway..it will grow from 7.1 billion USD to 10 Billion USD you will be still watching…wondering…WE BELONG TO A GROUP WHICH MAKES IT HAPPEN……

Maybe Cam wanted to post this Forbes article:
http://www.forbes.com/best/2001/0625/040.html

Quixtar is the online offspring of $5 billion, Grand Rapids, Mich.-based Amway Corp. Launched by the company at the height of the Internet stock craze in September 1999, Quixtar’s business model is virtually identical to Amway’s, only it’s Web-enabled. IBOs gather in cult-like meetings and chat rooms on the Web, and introduce friends, family and co-workers to the password-protected Quixtar Web site where they can buy thousands of the same mostly overpriced health, beauty and household products that Amway sells. Things like Time Defiance, a $62 wrinkle-fighting cream that promises to “turn back the clock” while you sleep. Or a Queen ten-piece stainless steel cookware set that sells for $700.

IBOfightback, I can put ten dollars in a foreign bank and get paid interest for 8 years without being there either. Yeah, it works.

Are you saying that you make a living with the income from Amway without other means of income?

Are you even a platinum? I have doubts about that.

Not everybody understands AMWAY principles…if everybody becomes wealthy…who will be left to clean toilets, press clothes & wash dishes….you nay sayers keep crying….keep wondering….there will a set of winners who will never beleive in old myths..get to make it happen…you keep waking up at 6:00 AM everyday rush to office…jump if you boss says “jump”…you all are good for it…no specially made for it…MAN without vision shall perish….i think you folks are proving it….awesome…

Online edition of India’s National Newspaper
Thursday, Feb 28, 2008
ePaper | Mobile/PDA Version

Business

News: ePaper | Front Page | National | Tamil Nadu | Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka | Kerala | New Delhi | Other States | International | Opinion | Business | Sport | Miscellaneous | Engagements |
Advts: Retail Plus | Classifieds | Jobs | Obituary |
Business

Amway India sales up 9 p.c.
Corporate Reporter
CHENNAI: Amway India Enterprises, a leading FMCG company in the direct sales channel has reported a turnover of Rs. 800 crore in 2007 against Rs. 738 crore in the previous year, a growth of 9 per cent. Products under nutrition and wellness category contributed over 55 per cent of overall business.
The company, which has commenced its tenth year of operations in India, aims to achieve a 20 per cent growth in turnover at Rs. 950 crore in 2008.
More branches
According to William Pinckney, MD and CEO, India was among the fastest growing direct selling markets in the world and the company was planning to add 100 more branches and 2 lakh distributors, predominantly in Tier II and Tier III cities.
Tamil Nadu is one of the top three states for Amway in India with 15 offices. Anshu Budhraja, Vice President, South, said Tamil Nadu contributed Rs. 96 crore to Amway India’s turnover and the company was having 80,000 distributors (Amway business owners) in the state. The company plans to open five more offices in the State and hopes to achieve a 20 per cent growth in the number of distributors in 2008.
Amway India has 85 products in five categories and 85 per cent of the products sold in India are manufactured within the country through third-party contract manufacturers in Hyderabad, Baddi (H.P.); Daman, Chennai and Mumbai.

God did not give commonsense to everybody just have a balance. So true with people not in amway…work for somebody till 60..provided if he doesnot sack, then apply for leave, wait for it to get approved, feeling hungry exactly at lunch hour at office, how stupid…somebody controlling everything you do….god created human beings to live not to work…..40 years of slavery I cannot handle…sorry..amway is the best oppurtunity…lets make it happen….guys…

Anonymous, you are so off base. Where in the Bible does it say that God created people to live and not work? 2 Thessalonians 3:10 says if a man will not work, he will not eat.

Who said you work to 60 and get controlled like a slave? Maybe *you* have a dead end miserable job, that doesn’t mean everyone else does. You think society shouldn’t have police and lifeguards and firefighters because they should all be amway distributors? Get a grip.

Amway is the “best” opportunity? Based on what level of success do you make that assertion? Not one single IBO has come forward to candidly speak about their level and income from Amway. Most likely because you are faking it.

I read it here: http://quixtarisacultintervention.blogspot.com/

It makes sense: IBO’s have a reason to lie because they can trick people into signing up. Bloggers have no reason to lie. I believe the critical bloggers are more credible just for that reason alone.

keep blogging for rest of your life watching others becoming successful…..JOB is a JOB….it stinks…either u work for Govt or Microsoft…because somebody controlling your time. How stupid it is to work for 4o years..like a dog, wagging the tail for every appraisal, buttering them….Time control & oney control is possible only by Amway & BWW team….whether you like or not…people are going to do it…Amway has grown from 6.1 to 7 billion USD without you….it will reach 10 billion USD without you…understand…nobody makes decision about their life by reading a blog..you know why…? other side of internet who is writing stupid theories is an unknown..what credibility you have…how many people get councelling from you, accepts you as a leader…donot answer…think & answer yourself….I am not shy to give you my level in Business..I am an emerald making 100 thousand dollars a year as commision, do you..? in free time , spare time…without disturing what you do…..just simply donot waste time writing the blog…I am anyways free man, no job, no boss…go out & do something worthwhile…nobody got Nobel prize for best employee of the year…..do things which many generations remember..some people leave butt prints…some will leave foot prints…you choose…..GOD bless you…

anonymous, you are full of it.

“Amway has grown from 6.1 to 7 billion USD without you”

Ha, I believe Amway was at 7 billion ten years ago. What timeframe are you refering to? Ten years ago?

“nobody makes decision about their life by reading a blog.”

Then why are your panties in a knot about all of this?

“I am not shy to give you my level in Business..I am an emerald making 100 thousand dollars a year as commision, do you?”

No, I am a cubic zirconia blogger making two hundred thousand dollars a year by blogging about amway. 🙂 So there!

Your reply gave me a sense of great level of awareness & commonsense you have about the different business models around. I tried searching for your name in elite list of top 5% income makers in the world …didnot find. But in that process found many Amway diamonds…..ahahahahahahahhh

outsider looks so stupid right….he doesnot understand Amway model …such a simple model….how can somebody be so illogical….? my maid understood the business plan in ten minutes,…she makes more money now….common sense is uncommon in common people anyways……

Outsider said –
I believe Amway was at 7 billion ten years ago

So … Outsider … are you proving yourself ignorant or are you proving yourself dishonest? It has to be one of the two.

Amway’s global sales in 1998 (ten years ago) was $5.7 billion at estimated retail. Alticor reports actual sales at IBO pricing, ie about a 32% price difference, so the 1998 sales were $4.3 billion compared to todays $7.1 billion.

If you want to check 1997, before they were hit badly by currency devaluations, sales at estimated retail were $7.0 billion, or $5.3 billion at IBO sales price compared to today’s $7.1 billion.

All of this is published, public information.

So you’re either ignorant or lying. Which is it?

Either way it’äs a big hint people shouldn’t put much trust in what you say about Quixtar.

Oh my goodness, such a bold faced lie. Amway was at 7 billion in 1997 instead of 1998.

Well Mr. David J Steadson, speking of lies and deception, maybe you can tell us why you have been an IBO for about ten years and achieved nothing? Such a great business opportunity you prmote yet you have done nothing in the last 5 years.

Yeah, I know you’ll say your level is not relevent. It is. You are promoting the business with a 2-5 year plan as a great opportunity yet you have FAILED to prove that you yourself could achieve any significant level of success with it.

So your either ignorant about quixtar and how it actually works or your lying about it. Which is it? Of course, maybe your just lazy?

Can you not read or are you just being generally argumentative and dishonest?

Amway sales for 1997 were $5.3 billion, not $7 billion

Is that clear enough for you?

Since you can’t ignore the facts, as much as you try, you then have to continue to show your class by attacking me. I have “done nothing in the last 5 years” (more like 8 actually) for personal reasons that have nothing to do with neither Amway nor Quixtar nor yourself. Frankly it’s none of your business. Prior to that I also achieved a deal more than “nothing” – this is simply you being dishonest *again*. You have no idea what level I’ve ever achieved, so you just pretend you do and make something up. Dishonest.

Then tell everyone what you achieved? Or are you just one of those fly by nite IBO’s who make claims and then attack others without addressing the actualy message?

Your the dishonest one here.

http://amway.robinlionheart.com/amvsp&g.htm

“Over 450 products are sold under the Amway name, including laundry
detergent, household cleaning products, cosmetics, skin care products, food supplements and various household goods. In addition, over 6,500 brand name products are offered through Amway catalogs. In 1997, Amway’s estimated retail sales totaled $7 billion worldwide.”

IBOFightback wrong again. Are you ignorant or lying? At least I posted a link as to where I saw the figure as compared to you’re arrogance of assuming that everything you post is a fact.

Spend the time you folks are wasting in analysis here to build the Amway business…you can be rich. If you have so much negetive about the business model, why US govt has not banned the business???instead appointed the chairman of Amway in the economic advisory board….whom to beleive…you nay sayers or somebody who is part of the economic advisory board…

They can appoint the chairman of amway as president. It doesn’t mean that being an IBO is a good or profitable venture.

If amway model is not profitable to IBOs why the business is growing, many Platinums, Emeralds & diamonds are broken every year…..how is it possible…..some people pose as they know better than Bill britt…but they are not…because Amway has made real promises & kept it….whatever has been shown in the marketing plan as commision I am getting it every month. Hats off to Amway corporation……

Foolllsssssss…..
Remember Amway is a 7.2 billion$ company now
working in 93 countries … .fortune 500 company….
biggest market is China!!!!!!!!
450 world class products…600 patents…..
started in 1959!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop fighting,start doing something….
You can’t stop Amway…
If any one interested in Amway….join with me….I’m successful….
a highly professional team under EDC Sajeev Nair
email…[email protected]….

Quote: “Remember Amway is a 7.2 billion$ company now
working in 93 countries … .fortune 500 company….
biggest market is China!!!!!!!!
450 world class products…600 patents…..
started in 1959!!!!!!!!!!!!”

Yes, good for the Devos and Van Andels.

Remember, average IBO income = $115 a month

Oh, then why did you fail to mention that if you asked your brother, once, in a whole year, if he wanted to buy some XS – and he said “No” – that you’d be included in that $115/mth income?

Pretty good money for the work.

I didn’t make up the average work, the average IBO does no work. Heck, if it’s anything like Shaklee, 85% of IBOs didn’t even join with an aim to make money – they joined to get IBO pricing and benefits.

David J Steadson aka ibofightback, if one IBO did 2 hours, the “average: cannot be zero. Stop lying and spreading false information. No wonder “The Rocket” calls you “spinsider”.

The corporation defines the terms active IBO and issues the average income. The stuff you make up is worthless unless your claiming to to represent the corporation. Are you?

Nope, just been otherwise engaged. What’s your name, Outsider? You seem so obsessed with mine it really is getting creepy. Do you peer in my windows at night?

Yes, the corp defines “active IBO” – have you bothered to read what that definition says? I just told you, you ignore it ’cause it doesn’t fit your fantasy. **Once in a year** say to your brother – “hey, bro, wanna buy some XS?”. Your brother says “no!”.

Voila, you’re an active IBO – average income, $1380/yr. Pretty damn good income for asking your brother a question, don’t you think?

“Voila, you’re an active IBO – average income, $1380/yr. Pretty damn good income for asking your brother a question, don’t you think?”

If you really believe that you have cow chips for brains.

My name is outsider. Kinda funny isn’t it?
Opposite of insider. LMAO

Maybe I should call myself IBObeatenup? ROTFL

oh, yeah, your definitely a laugh a minute – and if you believe the “average IBO” works real hard and makes only $115/mth then even cow chips would be an improvement for you.

Now, c’mon, Outsider (hahahah) fair’s fair – what’s your real name, since you’re so obsessed with sharing mine with the world?

My name is George.

BTW ibofightback, you still earning a living by hosting brothel websites on ass-gard?

Do you enjoy exploiting women to make a living?

Bt the way, saw the information about ibofightback on quixtar blog forum, critic’s section, insider’s identity revealed.

It’s all there.

From Quixtar Blog, thanks to “Whoz”:

David John Steadson BSC, GDipHsc (Graduate Diploma in Health Science)
Owner, NeDaMi / Asgard and Internet Specialist, (Amway distributor?)
Born: December 11, 1968 Sydney Australia

Oh, don’t forget to check out these sites hosted by asgard.net. They are however adult content.

http://www.kissesmassage.com a website for a brothel in High Wycombe England
http://www.sapphiresmassage.com a website for a brothel in Watford England
http://www.pinkpendulum.com a greeting card supplier for gays
http://www.ambienceunlimited.com a non active site that specialized in Glamorous Items for the Cross-dressing Community (you will find it on archive.org)

Now c’mon George (aka JoeCool or Whoz I’m starting to suspect), what’s your real, full name? Stop deflecting. Fair is fair. You think mine is so important, how about yours?

Ankur – Seriously though, do you really think this is appropriate comments for this blog, posting other peoples personal details?

Guys, You have got great discussion on nailing down Amway. I have used a couple of their products, overpriced…okay. What these devils advocates do however is to brainwash people into sort of a cult. They will lie, deceive, cheat and talk like a nobel laureate in finance to approach you.

I would pay 20 bucks more as tax, if Amway stopped brainwashing these healthy people.

I had a parent approach me during my sons function, they come to our house as a friend, give me advise on issues starting from dental medicine…to disclose that they want to sell something. Idiots!

God save from these Amway devils. They seem to be pretty right wing reputation too, they had issues in spreading canards in USA. all these profits going to create boundaries between you and your amway friends, indoctrinated on an amway message and people’s freewill controlled by these Amway propagandists….

Dhara – who is this “they” you speak of? There are literally millions of people around the world building Amway businesses. Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, even atheist’s like me. There’s engineers and truck drivers, students and retirees. Are you claiming to know how they all operate from your experience with a few?

Organisations tend to reflect their leaders, doesn’t matter if it’s with Amway or any thing else. In Amway there are thousands of different leaders. Some of them operate ways I don’t like. Some of them operate ways I do like. Their groups tend to reflect the leaders. Someone deceiving you into a meeting would go under the banner of “ways I don’t like”. But blame them – not Amway and the millions of other independent amway business owners.

And if you think “well, Amway should do something about the people deceiving”, well they do. But tell me this, did you report these people who deceived you to Amway? If you didn’t how do you expect Amway to even know it happened, let alone who did it? They’re not going to guess from reading anonymous comments on the ‘net.

How would a new person know who the good leaders are as opposed to the bad leaders?

Ok, blame the bad leaders but a regulatory agency should investigate to see if there are indeed a significant number of bad leaders out there and shut down the company if it’s confirmed.

Imagine you own a company and you employ salesmen. The salesmen go out and they lie, cheat, steal, whatever. You get some complaints and deal with them, but most customers simply get pissed off and don’t do business with you anymore, plus they tell everyone they know about their bad experience. You as the owner can just say – yeah, got some bad salesmen out there, but it’s not my fault.

I just summed up why I believe Amway has these
problems. Oh yeah, and having a guy named ibofightback defending the issues doesn’t help the reputation either.

Ok, so you own the company. It’s a big one. You have millions of salesman around the world. Some of the salesman lie, cheat steal etc. Yet you receive no complaints about them. What would you do?

IBOfightback, you are a master of debate.

Are you claiming that NOBODY has made any complaints to Amway about leaders who teach bad business practices? I have read many testimonies where IBO’s have said they complained to Amway and to their knowledge, nothing has been done.

And because these leaders are still apparertly teaching, it looks like NOTHING has been done by the parent company.

Where did I ever make that claim or even imply it? That’s absurd. Are you claiming Amway’s *never* does anything about complaints? Just because your or others don’t know what’s happened doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

I’d note that now if Amway receives complaints like many of those you read, eg the religion, the politics, excessive income claims, lying about the Amway/Quixtar name etc, then the people involved will no longer be eligible for all the yearly bonuses – “the big money”, in some cases hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars. You call that doing nothing?

In your example you said: Yet you receive no complaints about them

“No” complaints? As I said if you actually read my previous post, there is evidence/testimony that IBO’s have made complaints to the corporation.

But I have not seen evidence that these complaints were addressed.

You spin the truth.

Apparently, there are some groups that still push religion, some groups still deny that they are Amway. I think I just read a testimony where a network 21 IBO says they are not amway. These issues I believe, the corporation knows about, but nobody seems to know if they have ever been addressed.

Seems like only the “team” group had penalties, but that I believe it because they wanted to start a competing business against quixtar/amwa.

you have all these stinking arguments…but still the smart guy out of this discussion is amway distributor anyways, becz you may screem, & do whatever still he makes money. If you have so much data to prove amway is wrong, donot do it. Keep working for 40 years as donkeys. who cares. what significance you have in your life. god only can save stupid people.

Outsider, you’re not aware for example that the guy in the Dateline expose was sanctioned by Amway? You’re not aware that Orrin Woodward et.al. had been under warnings and sanctions for years before they were kicked out? You’re not aware of the dozens of other diamonds and above that have been kicked out over the years? And I can make you aware that at least one N21 Emerald I know of who was “hiding” the name Quixtar in his plans has been spoken to by both Amway and N21 and changed his plan.

It seems you’re on the normal “critic” path of “I’ve never heard of it, so therefore it hasn’t happened!”. What other company actively publicises disciplinary action against it’s staff or represenatives?

ibofightback, it’s more like you never heard of abuses so they don’t exist. Do you think the massive numbers of negative testimonials on blogs and forums are made up?

They seem to have a common thread. Bad advice from upline and debt piled up due to bad advice from upline to buy tapes and seminar tickets.

Outside, it more like you can’t read. Where have I *ever* said there are no abuses? Where have ever said anything close to that? As for “massive” numbers – compared to what? I analysed 2 years of the mssages on amquixes – less than a third of them were actually “negative testimonial”. Most were actually from prospects or brand new IBOs who decided to not be involved after reading the site – before they’d even had any experience. A third of them were folk defending the business!

There have been *millions* of people who have been involved in Amway in the US alone. Compared to that number, the number of complaints are *tiny*. What’s more, if you bother to actually *think* and look at the data, which is what I do, you’ll find that virtually all of those complaints are sourced *from the same affiliated groups*, and the dozens of Crown Ambassadors and thousands of Diamonds outside those groups generate virtually zero “negative testimonials”.

Does that not tell you anything at all? Are you incapable of working out a pattern here?

Start using your brain for a moment instead of repeating the same old tired mantras of the same old critics. And folk accuse us of being brainwashed. Good grief.

IBOfightback, you spin more than a top. You can talk about the small number of formal complaints that have been filed. I agree.
Most people probably just quit and tell everyone that the business is a scam.

But I can also tell you another thing. For every one person who likes quixtar/amway, I can comfortably guess that there about at least a dozen or more who have a negative opinion abut amway/quixtar and that number is even greater if you add in people who know someone who had a bad experience in amway/quixtar.

At least my assertion can be backed up by evidence. The lack of growth over the last 30 years or so. Quixtar/Amway has about the same numbers of distributors today (In the US) as they had back in the late 1970’s.

Diamonds falling out, diamonds quitting. The evidence is on my side.

IBOfightback, your defense of amway is weak indeed. By the way, do you work for amway?

No, I don’t work for Amway. And that “same number of distributors since the 1970s” is a myth, one of the many spread by anti-amway critics. See Amway/Quixtar MYTH: No growth in IBOs in 30 years for the proof. The number of IBOs has in fact almost doubled.

What’s more, given sales have doubled (inflation adjusted) in that time, wouldn’t it be a *good* thing if the # of IBOs were the same? It would me IBOs are generating twice the volume per IBO and thus more money!

Neither facts, nor logic, is on your side.

ibofightback, you’re like a booksmart guy with no “street smarts”.

Yuo can make up all kinds of tidbits and snippets about amwa and quixtar, but in real life, amway/quixtar has a bad reputation and
more and more people get turned off when you mention the name. Diamonds are being dropped and soe are quitting. Seems like more are quitting than emerging, at least in the USA.

You can have your theories, I’ll believe my own eyes.

Nice try at spinning the plates though.

ibofightback, I don’t know. I asked quixtar and was told to ask the person who showed me the plan. I guess if quixtar doesn’t know, you can’t expect me to know.

ibofightback, don’t you feel bad earning profits by doing business with brothels? You never answered that question.

You say – “Diamonds falling out, Diamonds quitting. The evidence is on my side” and yet you don’t even know how many new Diamonds there are? Some evidence. There’s been 77 new Diamonds in the last 4 years that I’m aware of.

As for your last pathetic question, I’m part owner of a webhosting business that has thousands of customers. If any of them are illegal businesses, then they would have they’re accounts closed. There are apparently some websites of massage and escort services, and which IMO quite probably provide sexual services as well. They are UK businesses, a place where prosititution is legal. I personally have no problems with legal prostitution.

But if you want to get into the mud, then let’s get into the mud and compare. You’re obviously raising this issue because of well known Quixtar critic JoeCool18. JoeCool18 claimed on his blog he had been threatened with exposure as visiting illegal brothels and attacked me and others and blogged for sympathy. He raised the claims, I responded. What was the result? It was discovered that JoeCool18, a married man, had indeed been visiting illegal brothels in Honolulu. Brothels well known for their exploitation of illegal immigrants. It was discovered, through his own descriptions of his actions, that he treated these women with zero respect. It was also discovered he had a facebook profile full of prositutes as friends.

He raised the issue on his blog and he outright lied about it. He claimed the facebook profile was not his – a lie. He claimed he hadn’t visited the brothels – a lie. He later admitted the facebook profile was his, proving he was a liar. He later admitted visiting the brothels – proving he was a liar. He claimed he hadn’t visited the World Sex Guide, which had a lot of this information, for a long time – also proved to be a lie, he’d been there as earlier as a few weeks before. More recently he has claimed I was “tracking his web activity” using Google Analytics, another lie which is little more than paranoid delusional. Furthermore, he has accused me of outing him, when people have provided me with his name, his wife’s name, his workplace, and home address and have never revealed it. I know many critics real names, and a deal of other information.

If pathetic people like yourself think it’s so damn important to plaster my name all over the net, and photograph, address, and phone number, as has happened, then perhaps you have no problem with me doing it for you and these other quixtar critics? Should I do it for you “outsider”? It’s amazing what can be found on the ‘net.

JoeCool18 has proven himself in his own words and actions to be an abuser of women, unfaithful to his wife, a persistent breaker of the law, and a consistent liar, dishonest to the extreme.

But to answer your question. Yes, one of my companies hosts some massage and escort service websites in locations where prostitution is legal. No I don’t feel bad about it. I have no problems with legal prostitution where there are safeguards in place to protect women earning a living from their work of choice. I do have a problem with illegal prostitution and exploitation of women. I do have a problem with men who sexually abuse women who are in positions of little power. I do have a problem with men who cheat on their wives. I do have a problem with men who persistently break the law. I do have a problem with men who persistently lie, and I do have a problem with people like JoeCool18 who do all of these things and consistently make up stories and lies about themselves, about me, and about the companies and people I associate with.

If you chose to associate yourself with him and people like him, which clearly you do, it says an awful lot about you doesn’t it? That’s assuming you’re not actually joecool18 yourself, which quite frankly wouldn’t surprise me.

Go crawl back into the hole you came out of.

ibofightback, do you have bonafide proof that Joe-Cool did these things? If so, I am willing to expose him on my blog. I don’t want proof from a court of public opinion. In my own opinion, you are just as bad as Joe Cool. I read about all of your lies and deception, but frankly, it has nothing to do with the fact that quixtar/amway is a great way for people to lose money following a dream.

I am not Joe-Cool, but you seem to be a hypocrite when you profit by doing business with brothels. Isn’t that what Joe-Cool is doing? Don’t be holier than thou. Your a hypocrite. I read Tex’s blog and he said your a big time liar, that’s why he never enjoyed his trip with you. Dave Robison’s blod said you were ok, but you I got the impression that you were an arse.

The reason I have an issue with you is because you promote a scam as if it’s a good opportunity. You could say I agree with Tex. And since you promote a scam, you are a scammer.

I’m glad “whoz” exposed you. I bet your dying to know who outsider is. Joe-Cool is not a secret. I emailed “Steve” and he told me why he is a blogger. Mostly to expose your deception. I find that ironic.

Yes, we have “bonafide proof” – JoeCool’s on words and admissions, as well as screenshots – it was all posted on my website, for registered users only since I generally not into slinging this stuff around publicly – not until jerks like you force it upon me. I have not lied about *anything* and for you to claim I have is either you deliberately lying or you’re just repeating what you’ve been told because you like the sound of it, to hell with the truth. If Tex is your source that kind of says it all really. I had what I thought were civil discussions with Tex in Prague, including one where I personally apologised to him for something I’d written that he’d misinterpreted. I thought he was a reasonably decent guy – it wasn’t till he came back and could hide behind the ‘net that I discovered he’d not accepted the apology and continued to slam me. He didn’t even have the decency to take it up with me in person after I’d apologised.

Regarding “brothels”, if you can’t see the difference between being a part owner of a web company hosting legal legitimate businesses, and a married man regularly going to illegal brothels, making up fraudulent accusations of threats regarding this, posting these false claims of threats on the web, and then when being called out and proved to be lying about the whole thing – and continuing to lie – well, I think you’ve got a serious issue with your ability to make moral judgements.

Now what was it Dave said about me on his site … oh yeah, that’s right … “I found him to be a pretty cool guy”. Which you interpret as getting “the impression I’m an arse”. This says a lot more about you than it does about me.

As for your last bits of rubbish, you accuse me of promoting a scam, yet here are you, falsely claiming that I’ve done/said all these “lies and deception”. Put up or shutup. What have I lied about? What have I deceived about?

Scott Larsens “exposure” did nothing but *enhance* my credibility. It showed that, despite years of accusations from people like JoeCool and you – I’m exactly who and what I’ve been saying I am all along. I’ve been nothing but truthful and honest. For you to hide behind your cute moniker, and sit here on some person’s blog and anonymously throw completely false and baseless accusations against me – cowardly, immoral, unethical, and frankly quite disgusting.

And you have the hide to call me a scammer.

I didn’t see any admission by JoeCool that he actually engaged in any of the activity that you accused him of. He admitted on his website to visiting the website and said that was it. Is he lying? Maybe, but you posting crap on your own website doesnt prove anything unless you are posting pictures of him actually going into a brothel.

Secondly, I have read some exchanges between you and other posters. You really do have an ego problem. You cannot admit being wrong and will spin, lie and deflect issues to avoid being labeled wrong.

Daves blog said he found you to be “cool”, but he also said you didn’t discuss amway stuff with him. Maybe your amway alter ego makes you become doctor jekyl when you are normally a cool guy? But when I see some of the junk you post, you don’t give me that impression.

And I have read countless testimonies of people who had their lives ruined by the people who push the “system”. Yet you seem to think that is ok and you even promote it. That to me the what’s dirty and wrong with amway, the system and those who promote it, including yourself.

He said the facebook profile wasn’t his, then he admitted it was. He said he hadn’t visited the WSG site, then he admitted he had. He said he hadn’t visited the brothels and just made all the internet posts up, when if you read the posts, which he admits are his words, it’s abundantly clear that too is a lie. His own words condemn him. Ask someone who actually bothered to check if JoeCool was lying. Tex annoys the crap out of me sometimes, but at least he bothered to actually read the evidence instead of continuing to believe someone who had already shown himself to be a liar.

As for an “ego” problem. I’ve got a problem with being told I’m lying when I’m not. I’ve got a problem when being told that *my* experience isn’t true and someone elses is. If there’s something we’re I’m wrong, I’m more than happy to admit it (as I did immediately when I became aware I was wrong with the sideline issue Tex raised about Farenheit/Celsius conversion).

You have not pointed out a *single* thing I’ve pointed out that is “junk”. More accusations with zero evidence to support it. As I said before – put up or shut up.

As for your last “countless” testimonies – guess what, they’re not countless. I and another poster on QBlog spent some time “counting” a couple of years of these “testimonies” on Amquix. A third were pro-Amway, a third were anti-Amway, with actual experience, a third were folk with no experience or almost no experience simply saying “glad I found the site” and then quitting – without even having had a bad experience! You then go make this absolutely RIDICULOUS claim about people having had their lives ruined by the people who push “the system”. This ubiquitious “system” doesn’t exist. You have zero experience with Crador. You have zero experience with Muller-Meerkatz. You have zero experience with Heckel. You have zero experience with Schwartz. You probably have zero experience with Network 21. You have zero experience with >99.9% of the Amway world, yet you sit here making absolutist judgements about what everyone is doing. What’s “the system” – learn how to do it, work hard. Hard work and education – that’s it, that’s the common “system” you talk about. I know people that have been “ruined” following that system in the traditional business world, but you think the fact “the systems” all teach the same thing “learn and work hard” that this means they all operate the same way, they all rip people off, they all pressure people, they all do under the table payments etc etc etc

Yet you have HOW MUCH experience with 99.9999% of Amway?

NONE

Are you anonymous or ibofightback?

Having read more exchanges between “insider” and JoeCool, I have concluded that Joecool just gets under ibofightback’s skin. JoeCool and ibofightback have differing views and rarely ever agree on amway related issues.

Now whether or not Joecool frequented brothels or not is irrelevant to the amway and quixtar issues. ibofightback himself said he’s got a “partner” and not a wife. So is he sleeping around and making babies with different women, thus making him an illegitimate parent? I don’t know and I don’t care.

Some of what JoeCool says is right on the money and some is “off”. Likewise, some of what ibofightback says is right and some is also “off”

What I gather from all this is that “MOST” people would be better off not getting involved in amway or quixtar. These people are simply not motivated or suitbale to run an MLM business. Yet IBO’s recruit “unsuitable” people. Also, my understanding is that many people who are motivated who register often get into financial difficulty as the teaching system slowly drains their rescources unless they eventually build a sizable downline. However, building a sizable and sustainable downline is nearly impossible. Amway and quixtar has a shady reputation at best. Thus, a reasonable person should conclude that where most will not benefit by participating, even on a dedicated basis, then most should avoid the opportunity. However, an MLM structure, one cannot succeed without downline. Quite a dilemma.

Ibofightback, I have concluded that you have an unheathy obsession with JoeCool. For some reason, I sense you have an unheathy disdain for the man, and I can see it in your posts. Even in messages where other were civil, you seem to have lost your temper when JoeCool was in the discussion.

My guess is that you are highly competitive and HATE losing. Are you the type that would beat your kid in marbles because you hate to lose? I see you and JoeCool as near equals in the amway quixtar debate with you as a knowledgeable supporter and JoeCool as a fairly knowledgeable critic.

Maybe JoeCool did or is doing unethical things when he’s not debating quixtar and amway, but heck, I like occasionally going to strip clubs abd stuff too. Only difference is that I didn’t post my name “Outsider” on the internet.

yeah, that was me, and yeah JC gets under my skin and he undoubtedly knows it. He deliberately repeats things he knows are false to stir me up and he does it again and again. He’s dishonest to the extreme. It’s one reason why I now ignore him. If I recall correctly you brought him into the conversation with the whole “brothel” things, not me. As for my “partner”, no I’m not married to her, but I don’t cheat on her either. Again you seem to have somewhat interesting ways of moral judgements. You here have equated the occasional visit to a strip club with the kind of stuff JoeCool was doing, by his own words – you clearly haven’t read the stuff, I suggest you either do so and understand what you’re talking about, or better drop the topic at all at stop with BS talking points you’ve been fed.

Regarding whether he is a “knowledgeable” critic or not, it’s hard to tell. He so often repeats stuff that is not true, and which he has been shown numerous times is not true, that he’s either an idiot or deliberately dishonest. Since he’s admitted himself to numerous acts of dishonesty, and in the brothel case either to lying about it or a story teller on the internet (probably both), I’m tending towards dishonest. He’s an attention seeker and Q* gives him his extending 15 mins of internet fame, as long as he has acolytes like you who lap up his stories unquestionably.

Either way his knowledge is debatable.

As for the criticism of “MLMers” as recruiting unsuitable people, are you saying it’s our job to judge what’s right for other people, despite knowing from past experience that you simply can’t determine who will succeed and who won’t? That they shouldn’t be given the opportunity to get information and decide for themselves? That they shouldn’t have the right to give it a try, and if they think it’s not for them, get all their money back?

We have different world views.

IBOfightback, I did a lot of reading on quixtar blog, your blog and JoeCool’s blog and others.

You and JoeCool are like sparring partners.

No, I don’t think JoeCool is an authority, nor do I condone his behavior if he in fact did visit brothels. I don’t really care to go and read his posts as I said, to me it’s irrelevent to amway quixtar. I only posted the thing about your technology company hosting brothels because I find it somewhat hypocritical of you. Fankly if I were in your shoes, I would accept their business also, but where it gets debatable is when you think it’s so bad that someone frequents the brothel. Afterall, you are indirectly helping to promote them. That’s all I got to say about this subject and I consider it now closed.

Sure, people have a right to decide whether to try MLM or not, but there is PLENTY of evidence that many people get tricked into joining amway quixtar and have been lied to by various Amway quixtar recruiters. Amway quixtar is just about the only MLM where this type of deception is so common. I don’t hear these stories about Avon, etc.,

I believe amway quixtar is distinctive in deception because there is emphasis on recruiting. Although amway/quixtar remains legal because they don’t pay for recruiting,
there is still emphasis on recruiting because that is the virtually only way to reach the higher levels in the business and it’s why the business, IMO is a bad idea.

You can disagree, but it is still a reaity here in the USA. Your promoting what I believe is a scam. Do you get compensated to promote amway or quixtar?

” You here have equated the occasional visit to a strip club with the kind of stuff JoeCool was doing, by his own words – you clearly haven’t read the stuff, I suggest you either do so and understand what you’re talking about, or better drop the topic at all at stop with BS talking points you’ve been fed.”

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

IBOfightback, in my “world”, one wrong is just as bad as another. Therefore, even if JoeCool did something stupid like going to a brothel, that’s no better or worse than someone who hits their kids, disrespects their parents, or have sex without marriage. That’s my point. As I said, I don’t condone what JoeCool may have done, but neither do I condemn him. I am not perfect and have done some stupid things in my life. Everyone does. Everyone also deserves a second shot. I believe it was clear that JoeCool had stopped visiting that website/brothel before he was exposed, thus indicating to me that he did it of his own accord. Does anyone know who JoeCool really is? I know his name but not much else about him.

BTW, I have been extensively reading up on Quixtar and Amway and I don’t understand why a person who achieves the diamond level would ever quit or do something to get terminated by the company. Do you care to explain this?

**Lastly – JoeCool can only get under your skin if you let him.

Wow, hitting kids and using women in illegal brothels for sex is no worse than sex outside marriage. We really do have different world views. And no, he hadn’t stopped visiting the site. He lied about that. Which is my main point (not his brothel visits) – he is a liar and this episode made it very clear he is a liar. He repeatedly and very clearly and confirmably lied on his website about this issue. He lies about many things with regards to Amway. He lies about many things with regards to me. I’ve had emails from people who know him, so I’ve more than just his name.

As for your on-topic questions/comments –

Sure, people have a right to decide whether to try MLM or not, but there is PLENTY of evidence that many people get tricked into joining amway quixtar and have been lied to by various Amway quixtar recruiters. Amway quixtar is just about the only MLM where this type of deception is so common. I don’t hear these stories about Avon, etc.,

Avon is recent to the MLM game, and there are indeed “horror stories” about Avon. As for “getting tricked into joining” I don’t see how that is even possible, given you have to sign a contract. Even so, Amway is at least 4 times the size of the nearest competitor and been around more than 20 years longer than they have – and there’s plenty of “horror” stories about them on the ‘net too. You don’t appear to have looked very hard. And let’s put that “many” in perspective. let’s imagine that 1% of 1% of 1% of IBOs in any given year have some “horror story” they tell on the internet. That should have give you 100 different “horror stories just since 1998. You won’t find that many. More people went Diamond in that time just in the US alone then reported some “horror story”.

I believe amway quixtar is distinctive in deception because there is emphasis on recruiting

“Recruiting” is simply a way to develop customers and volume. Most people who join are recruited as customers. You may not believe it, but the statistics and data are extremely clear on that. There’s nothing deceptive about developing customer volume. Indeed, some IBOs say they feel deceptive selling products at full price when they know for a small fee the person can register and get them 20-30% cheaper.

Do you really feel it would be a more “honest” business if we hid that alternative?

Do you get compensated to promote amway or quixtar?

Any more than any other IBO does through generating sales volume through their network? No. (with the exception of the recent Prague blogging panel). I’ve said this often enough I’m really getting sick of answering it. Do you get paid by P&G or Unilever to denigrate Amway on the internet? Does JoeCool?

BTW, I have been extensively reading up on Quixtar and Amway and I don’t understand why a person who achieves the diamond level would ever quit or do something to get terminated by the company. Do you care to explain this?

Well, I don’t think it’s normal for anyone to deliberately go out of their way to get terminated, but apart from that, why do you think this business would be any different to any other business? It has it’s ups and downs, people think perhaps there’s a better opportunity elsewhere, or they have some disagreement or something else happens. People buy and sell and move on to other businesses all the time in the non-Amway world. If you thought there was a better option for you elsewhere, why would you stay with Amway?

“Wow, hitting kids and using women in illegal brothels for sex is no worse than sex outside marriage. We really do have different world views. ”

In my “different” world view, “a sin is a sin”. One is not better or worse than another.

“And no, he hadn’t stopped visiting the site. He lied about that. Which is my main point (not his brothel visits) – he is a liar and this episode made it very clear he is a liar. He repeatedly and very clearly and confirmably lied on his website about this issue. He lies about many things with regards to Amway. He lies about many things with regards to me. ‘

So Steve/Joe is still visiting and posting on that website? When did he last post there? He said on his blog or someplace that he has not posted there in a while. That certainly can be confirmed?

“I’ve had emails from people who know him, so I’ve more than just his name.”

So who is he? I know his name, is it confirmed? Is there more?

““Recruiting” is simply a way to develop customers and volume. Most people who join are recruited as customers. You may not believe it, but the statistics and data are extremely clear on that. ”

I have seen some major groups who teach their IBO’s not to sell stuff, just buy for themselves. Isn’t that a violation of company rules?

Any more than any other IBO does through generating sales volume through their network? No. (with the exception of the recent Prague blogging panel). I’ve said this often enough I’m really getting sick of answering it. Do you get paid by P&G or Unilever to denigrate Amway on the internet? Does JoeCool?

My main beef isn’t so much with Amway, but the IBO’s who trick people into meetings, teach IBO’s not to sell merchandise, and those who sell false hopes to people who may be vulnerable to these suggestions.

” People buy and sell and move on to other businesses all the time in the non-Amway world. If you thought there was a better option for you elsewhere, why would you stay with Amway?”

But these diamonds are quitting. If there was such a thing as “residual” and “continuing” income, why would they resign? Wouldn’t they
just walk away and let the checks keep rolling in?

Yes, we do have different world views. I don’t consider murder (a sin in all faiths I believe) and eating too much food (the sin of gluttony) to be the same. Let’s just leave that discussion to the side.

As for JC, he claimed he hadn’t posted to the site in more than a year, I found posts of his only a few weeks before he made that statement. I haven’t tried to see if he’s still posting or posted after that. As for his names and other details, despite the lies of the critics claiming I’ve “outed” all of these people, I’ve never named any critics, I don’t intend to start now. His name, job etc etc are not relevant. The fact he lies on his quixtar blog is relevant, which is what started the whole “brothel” thing. He made a post about it and claimed IBOs were threatening him. To the best of my knowledge no pro-Amway person had raised the issue until I raised it as a topic, and lied about it.

I have seen some major groups who teach their IBO’s not to sell stuff, just buy for themselves. Isn’t that a violation of company rules?

yup. It’s not illegal though, which folk often claim and which I challenge.

My main beef isn’t so much with Amway, but the IBO’s who trick people into meetings, teach IBO’s not to sell merchandise, and those who sell false hopes to people who may be vulnerable to these suggestions.

I have a beef with them as well, they give the business and industry a bad name. I also have a beef with critics who claim or assume that the entire, or even majority, of Amway operates this way. I particular have a beef with folk who claim I operate that way.

But these diamonds are quitting. If there was such a thing as “residual” and “continuing” income, why would they resign? Wouldn’t they just walk away and let the checks keep rolling in?

Again, lots of reasons. Back in the early 80s a Diamond thought the business had peaked and would start shrinking. So he sold his business to get the cash before he thought it would start to shrink. He was wrong of course, one of his legs ended up with Double Crown Ambassador Kauro Nakajima of Japan. Another has now Founders Crown Ambassdor 45FAA Jim & Nancy Dornan. If you think the business is going to shrink, clearly you’d be better off selling.

Team Diamonds clearly think the name change to Amway will be a disaster, they wanted to go do something else as quickly as possible.

Others of course walk away because there businesses aren’t generating residual income. There’s no guarantees that just because you go Diamond it will keep bringing in the dollars. It’s a lot more sophisticated than that and needs proper structure to (statistically speaking) be likely to “live on” without your input. There are plenty of folk with residual incomes. There’s dead people whose estates are getting the money (Neil Maaskant’s for example)

“The fact he lies on his quixtar blog is relevant”

I did not see anything on his blog that was a blatant lie. The issue of the brothel thing is the only area of debate, but even that does not appear to be a slam dunk. The rest of the articles look like opinions and stories. Am I wrong?

” yup. It’s not illegal though, which folk often claim and which I challenge.”

Maybe not illegal, but it is not sound business practice, in my opinion.

“I have a beef with them as well, they give the business and industry a bad name. I also have a beef with critics who claim or assume that the entire, or even majority, of Amway operates this way. I particular have a beef with folk who claim I operate that way.”

I know that “all” people associated with amway and quixtar don’t do this, but there are enough of them out there to ruin the name of the company. And a noobie wouldn’t really know whose ethical and whose not. And that is where the problem is. To my knowledge, the corp. hasn’t stomped on the bad groups.

“Others of course walk away because there businesses aren’t generating residual income.”

There’s one more issue I have because there are quite a few IBOs out there who make it sound as if they will become diamond and bask in wealth the rest of their lives.

IBOfightback, you’re ok, but I disagree with you on several key issues. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

I did not see anything on his blog that was a blatant lie.

Believe me, if you actually went and read what he’d written on the WSG site (which I don’t recommend), then it’s definitely a slam dunk. He claimed the Facebook profile wasn’t his, but later admitted it was. He claimed he hadn’t posted in more than a year, then was caught having posted only a few weeks before. With regards Amway, he regularly posts lies about things I’ve said, and he also often misleads by deliberate ommission, and even states things in a factual manner when he’s previously been shown they are untrue. Another example is mentioned in my Amway/Quixtar Myths, Psycho-facts and the Internet Echo Chamber article.

Maybe not illegal, but it is not sound business practice, in my opinion.

Nor in mine.

To my knowledge, the corp. hasn’t stomped on the bad groups.

Threatening to withhold all the bonuses for “big pins” for “misbehaviour” isn’t stomping on them? That’s what linking QBI to Quixtar Accreditation does. And there has been things done in the past. In the early 80s Amway tried stomping and broke their own leg. Now Amway is bigger and stronger and the “problems” are smaller and less influencing.

There’s one more issue I have because there are quite a few IBOs out there who make it sound as if they will become diamond and bask in wealth the rest of their lives.

Founders Executive Diamond, probably. Diamond, unlikely.

“Believe me, if you actually went and read what he’d written on the WSG site (which I don’t recommend), then it’s definitely a slam dunk. ”

But that’s not his blog. I didn’t see anything blatantly wrong on his blog.

He may have a shady side to him, which I do not condone, but his blog looks ok, although the guy is obviously obsessed with being anti – quixtar.

“Founders Executive Diamond, probably. Diamond, unlikely.”

A diamond makes around $150K. What do these higher levels earn if teh structure is right?

But that’s not his blog. I didn’t see anything blatantly wrong on his blog.

With regards this topic, what was wrong on his blog was (a) he lied about it, repeatedly and (b) he tried to attack IBOs using these lies. He’s also extremely misleading for those who don’t understand the business. For example, his current post states “If you have been in the business and following the system for a year, or nearly a year and you are not platinum or close to platinum, chances are YOU WILL NEVER REACH THE PLATINUM LEVEL OR HIGHER”

What he well knows is that “following the system” requires an awful lot of committment and almost nobody does it consistently. Those that do, do indeed reach Platinum and higher. The problem is that outside observers (eg family) often have a completely twisted view of what people are doing. We’ve had months where we’ve put in maybe 8 hrs total into the business and my fiancee’s parents have commented we’re working so hard! They haven’t got a clue what work we are or are not doing, but think they do. So the average IBOs caring family and friends will read JoeCool’s post and leap on anyone who has been in the business a year and pressure them to quit. By far the majority of Platinums I know took a lot longer than a year after joining before they went platinum. In those intervening years they usually still went to seminars, which the outside world seems to interpret as meaning they were following the system, but they weren’t doing all the things necessary. They knew it and took personal responsibility and then later moved on and started putting in the committment.

His last post was comparing the Casino (games of chance) with Amway (rewards work and results). It’s a completely bogus comparison and he knows it. There is nothing you can do in roulette to effect your likelihood of success. Everything you do in Amway is up to you and can effect your likelihood of success. To compare it to a game of chance is outright dishonest.

A diamond makes around $150K. What do these higher levels earn if the structure is right?
structure isn’t just about income, it’s also, and perhaps more important, about stability

A few years ago it was reported the average Founders Executive Diamond and above in the US makes about $1.4million/yr.

IBOFightback,

Thanks for the information. So your experience is that most who truly dedicate themselves usually make it to higher levels? Why do you think so many people sign up and then don’t dedicate themselves if the reward is truly an easy lifestyle?

BTW, I read JoeCool’s article and he said Amway is not a game of chance. Here’s the excerpt from his blog:

“Although the amway/quixtar business is not a game of chance, you can compare it to the experience of many IBOs who participated in an AQMO system. ”

Based on my observations, that assessment seems reasonable if you look at those who sign up and later quit.

“Everything you do in Amway is up to you and can effect your likelihood of success. To compare it to a game of chance is outright dishonest.”

While this is true, what an IBO cannot control is whether others will join or not. I believe that Amway’s reputation here in the US is soiled because of what some crazy previous IBO’s have done. If you read my story, you’ll know what I mean.

Anyway, overall, maybe IBO’s should screen prospects and not sign up people who are not serious because then they will be less likely to quit or sign up and do nothing. That will help repair the name reputation and improve overall retention.

What do you think?

While this is true, what an IBO cannot control is whether others will join or not. I believe that Amway’s reputation here in the US is soiled because of what some crazy previous IBO’s have done. If you read my story, you’ll know what I mean.

I don’t need to read your story to know that 🙂 Had ’em in my own group! 🙁

Anyway, overall, maybe IBO’s should screen prospects and not sign up people who are not serious because then they will be less likely to quit or sign up and do nothing. That will help repair the name reputation and improve overall retention.

What do you think?

I both agree and disagree. The problem is there are wwaaaaayyyy too many stories of people like that who after months or even years suddenly *did* take it seriously.

What I’d prefer is that more IBO’s communicate better with the prospects, and do what one of mine just did recently, went to someone she sponsored a couple of months back who was doing nothing, sat down with her, offered her all her money back. She declined, said she still wants to do it, just not yet, and remains registered but has started buying and using more of the products (and is finding she loves them).

I just last night listened to a CD of an old friend of mine (who happens to be my upline in another country). He spoke about someone in his downline who had a bad experience with their sponsor. My friend visited saw them and bought back everything this person had bought. CD’s, books, Amway products, everything. They will not be left with the impression they would have had if he hadn’t done that.

I’ve done several posts on this topic on my site. The majority of people we show the business to are not interested. The majority of people who join the business will end up not doing much with it. Those two together absolutely dwarf the numbers of people who stay in and build a business. They define our public reputation. It’s our job as IBOs, as well as the BSM companies and Amway, to ensure all the people not interested and all the people who “quit” have as positive an experience as possible.

I think that’s a better approach than excluding folk who want to join just because [i]we[/i] think they won’t do anything with it.

This would be just my observation on the blogs and such, but in the US, quixtar and amway have such a bad name, it’s hard to find people
open minded enough to show the plan to. I guess over the years, so many people have heard of or know someone who had a less than satisfactory experience with crazy IBO’s.

You’re experience is probably different, but you are from another country right?

I’m from a number of different countries 🙂 I have however shown the business to probably two dozen Americans in the last couple of years, some who had moved abroad recently, others who were still US residents but travelling.

**Not a single one of them gave a negative response to Amway**

Given the thousands of new Platinums over the last 5 years in the US, there’s apparently plenty of other folk not finding it to hard to find open-minded american’s either.

Getting an impression from the internet can easily lead to the wrong impression. Did you know that WordPress, one of the big blog hosts, recently deleted a blog about Amway UK, stating they won’t allow blogs about MLMs? They’re quite happy to post anti-MLM blogs though. Did you know DMOZ, the biggest “directory of websites” on the internet and used by many other directories and search engines, will allow anti-Amway sites to be listed in their directory, but as a matter of policy won’t allow pro-Amway sites. Indeed, rumour has it the “volunteer” editor for the categories is none other than Scott Larsen.

Not forgetting of course that these sites are owned by companies who earn their incomes primarily from selling advertising. And who buys very little advertising? Amway. Who buys a lot? Amway’s competitors.

Throw in the fact that Amway itself used to close down pro-Amway sites and you’re left with a very twisted view of the reputation of Amway if you get it by searching the internet.

No doubt there are pockets of areas in the US where Amway is little or unknown, but where I come from, it seems as if the name amway is associated with the plague.

You may be right in that the internet has many anti amway websites, but are there valid issues being raised on these “negative” websites? I believe the answer to that is yes. That being said, the extent of the problem may be exxagerated by the critics but also, the issues may be smoothed over by supporters. I believe the answer lies in the middle somewhere.

For example, I do believe the blogger that says there is a tools scam. I don’t believe all groups do this, but certainly enough of them do abuse downline to where it’s a concern and to where you can see why there are critics of these systems.

Another issue that I observe, is some of the really higher up crown ambassador types are almost seen as divine entities, yet some of them do not behave in a manner that is consistent with how they are portrayed to downline.

@all

Those who are in Amway, Congrats to you all.
And those who criticize this business, i vehemently say that you are losing your lives. Those who don’t dare to take up this, criticize about this. Among the people who criticize Amway, can anyone disprove why it is not a good one?
And i saw someone saying that nobody is going to become Platinum IBO. To all those who agree with that, i say, my UNCLE is a PLATINUM IBO.
So, if you don’t have the guts to do this business, just mind you own way and within few years you will become POOR.. Mark My Words…

Go Amway!!! Go Crown!!!

and Cheers ibofoghtback..

I wish you become successful in this and achieve more levels.. congrats..

and Salil S

great that you are under Team One.. Wish you all success and Mr. Sajeev Nair is always with us..

ibofightback is not even a platinum.

He just is deluational about what is success and how to achieve it. Take that to the bank.

I attended such a seminar in Melbourne. And Mr Raj Shah came and talked about the concept of IBO promising richness.I nearly got brain washed but I didnt immediately buy the idea until I research the web and you guys have opened my eyes in this regard.The idea of pyramid scheme is a wrong one I promise never to participate again.

I completely agree w/ ‘ibofightback’ and his comments regarding Ankur’s post on Amway. The complete opposite of what you wrote is what Amway is all about! You cited sources and reasons of why Amway is NOT… a “pyramid scheme,” if you will. It’s really hard to fathom that there are sooo many people out there that don’t/won’t find out anything from experience, for themselves, or from their OWN research from credible sources. It’s all about the business team you work on and what the atmosphere that is created is about. If you don’t believe this will work for you, or is a good business opportunity, then DON’T GET INVOLVED!! DON’T JOIN A BUSINESS TEAM!! No one is being convinced to do anything!! Information is provided for people who want to have better lives and actually believe in themselves to do whatever it takes to be successful, while at the same time… impacting others in a positive way!! No one is beckoned to get involved, b/c people make their own choices in life, and they have to want to be on a team, and want to succeed, to make it!! No one is forced to do anything in life!!! Anyone has questions? Comments? Problems? Get back to me [email protected]

Hello Everybody This blog has started since January 2008 and this is November. The starter of this blog initially do not believe in multilevel marketing Mr Ankur Agarwal. Now He is presenting himself as MLM guru who guides networker to build their network marketing business. So guys dont fight. One thing I want to tell is Nobody is lying in this whole matter even supporter and opponent of network marketing. Because some facts when said in negative manner are mostly mis-interpreted. Like some one lose friends. Its not that your friend has offered you a the business and you not accept it thats why your friend is no talking to you but reason is that he has got good friends than you in amway who gives true love to him also he has become serious about the life and career after joining the business.

//attended a seminar by Raj Shah and now read the blog and decided to not join//

For you information which information you believe?? its like so many person tell a man that the animal he is having with is a dog and not goat. so he left the goat having with him on the way and the person who were telling it lift it to thier home. Just like ankur. I am telling you the fact. Raj Shah is native of Baroda Gujarat the place where I belongs. He settled in US. he built the business Amway and has retired at the age of 30. His retirement was telecated in popular american news channel.He is running a school in Baroda Gujarat which gives good education totally free to those who can afford study. This is another side of this business. Regarding different style of showing the plan. I know everybody give wrong reporting or reporting based on their own wrong interpretation. No IBO cheat with anybody. They simply say that ” We are using lots of products in our life. We spent lots of money in buying the products. but we could not get anything. To spent money on products is unavoidable. so in amway even if you buy products for yourself the company passes dividond from its profit to the loyal user of the products.Further more if you share the products to few customers you will get profit on it. If you find people who can do the same you are doing. All those person will get benefit what you was getting and consequently as the turnover of your team increases you will get more reward. and this is the business. Each and every corner of our society has this scene. Every traditional company is following the same method but difference in Amway/RCM/mlm and other traditional compamy is that the rights for distribution are sold at higher prices and to some selected and rich persons only in traditional market. but in network marketing this rights of distribution of products is given to common person at virtually no investment.
//one person has told that out of 4500 of kit you will get 2500 worth products and 2000 is given as gift to your sponsor//
Sir please check out the truth. This amount is not circulated. This is what i dont know but, this 2000 is not given to anybody. Complainers dont know what they are complaining about.

Ok god bless everyone.

We know what we are complaining about. Nearly all people who register for Amway end up with a loss. Many people who recruit for Amway use less than honest tactics and tricks to get them to register and/or see the plan. If they get people to register, then they try to suck them into the teaching system that will take their money and not teach them how to make an income from Amway and will not help them to build a sustainable business. Thus it is overall a scam.

those who are into amway and who talks positive about amway they all are hypnotized – they praise amway all the time day and night and everyday and througout of life. when time comes to gather they simply talk about their products and their business. with friends, family and who ever they come across they make them to attend seminar and turn get hypnotized… i am also sure they are sleepless and trying to think whole the day about amway and its products. its really irritating when in friends gather also they start talk about amway products and try to sell. those who are against amway here in this blog commented are alert ones all the time and are wise people and they know “nothing comes without hardwork and nothing is free on this earth”.

People here who critises amway really dont know wht the business is and the quality of the products..they simply say amway without any knowledgs..the people who really know abt amway please dont waste time replying for the critisisers..the critisizers know nothing abt amway..

These people are real p.o.s.’s. I went to one of their ‘meetings’ but only because I liked one of the girls that was in it. They were telling kids right out of highschool to not even bother with collage and that this path will have them retired by 25. I told off there so called mentor and explained how the system is still a scheme by definition. Don’t know if any of the kids saw that, but the mentor didn’t really have any counters to my counters.

Yes, I dealt with Amway recruiters also. They use slick lines and try to make the presentation look logical but if you look beneath the surface, you can easily see the half truths and lies they tell to trick you into thinking that Amway is a great business. If the busienss actually worked, there would be many retired people praising the Amway plan Instead, just about everyone I know of understands that the Amway promoters are just scammers.

I think most of the people have misunderstood the concept of network marketting and they dont know much more like Amway etc.
But if some body think positively definetly it will help fool . As per my study there are lacs of people who very success full in Network marketting and in Amway also . I observed some of them and they have made so many good friends.
If you realy some body realy get a chance to join like amway please go ahead as it will give you chance to improve your life your attitude and values . Infect I am looking for some body to approch me.
Thanks

“If you realy some body realy get a chance to join like amway please go ahead as it will give you chance to improve your life your attitude and values ”

So never mind about making profits and an income. Join Amway to improve your life and attitude? That’s hogwash.

One of my friends joined, and tried to get all of our friends to join as well, and it did not end nicely. He is now enemies with basically all his friends, except members of quixtar. If your not in the business, he portrays you as a fool. I hate quixtar with a passion and hope that all the scamming rich top level guys someday are summoned to a court room to tell the real ways of making money in quixtar, aka motivational tools.

Robert, your friend has been indoctrinated by the Quixtar/Amway teaching. They have an
us against the world philosophy and so anyone who won’t join with you aren’t your “real” friends. That’s how this business can divide families and friends. Hopefully your friend will wake up and realize what’s going on.

Hi all,

it was quite interesting to go through all the posts – some in favour and some against the networking marketing specially Amway. Well guys all of you are highly educated people and successful in your lives. Still I would take liberty to tell you a few things. Due to conditioning of our minds we slowly loose the capacity to objectively analyse anything which is out of the box.
The network marketing is a revolutionary concept of product/service delivery.
Often we are introduced to network marketing by the people who are part of some network marketing company. We tend to analyse the concept of network marketing based on little information that we get from such people.

Network marketing provides oppotunities to all without any distinction of sex, education, age etc. to build the legal source of passive income. Most of us ( about 95% of the world population) spend our entire lives working for wrong type of income i.e. active income and teach the same thing to our children.

The problem with us is that we don’t learn to differentiate between the basic character of active and passive incomes. We also make our opinion about anything without analysing it in a rational manner. The network marketing has been given negative publicity by over enthusiastic and ill-informed distributors who try to lure the people by promissing them that they can get rich quick without doing any hard work. Network marketing is a genuine business model which, like any other business, requires consistent hard work to build your organisation. The real advantage with network marketing is that it requires very insignificant financial investment. As a matter of fact,since it is so easy to start the network marketing business, very often people with wrong mentality of getting rich without any hard work join these businesses.

Well, i can talk on this topic endlessly. My friendly advise to you guys is to consider yourself lucky if somebody approaches you with an opportunity. However, you must have basic understanding to differentiate the pyramid schemes from genuine businesses. One simple test is to see whether the company pays you simply for enrolling the people for a high fee or it compensates you based on the turnover of your group. The turnover must come from consumption or retail of products and services. The companies which compensates you based on turnover are genuine business opportunities.

thats well said!!!
“The companies which compensates you based on turnover are genuine business opportunities.”
Amway also does the same.
One problem is that there are distributors/ groups / teams who are greedy, bringing in bad reputation.
They make a lot of money from tools / CDs / functions.
And those people who spend their money on it and is not successful, put the blame on MLM / Network / Amway
As the saying goes .. “BAD WORKERS BLAME THEIR TOOLS”.

see figures and facts talks
amway grew from .5 milion to 1.8 billion in 1999 to 2007
34 new diamonds in india in 2008-2009
tons of emeralds and platinum all over world
in 80 plus countries and terrotories (most stable and rich in the world)

in north america 1.5 million products distributed with 450 exclusive and other market products each having there own lawyers to protect illegal businesses

pyramid schemes are illegal in many countires amway has established itself including north america
charities to red cross and other institues

one of owner and his son served in us has been chairman of us chamber of commerce

your decion it works is right for you and it doesnot work is also right for you. Your choidce man/ladies
any more questions plaese : [email protected]

Friends,
Goldquest has collapsed in India.
There is another binary based pyramid scheme called RMP Infotech, these guys pay huge commission for adding 2 persons. I don’t know from where they get these so much money to pay such a huge sum to all the uplines? A big question Mark ??? + there is a weekly income cieling !! Why man why?
Amway on the other hand pays commission to uplines based on total sales, BUT ONLY after deducting the commission paid to the downlines.
Simple business & it really fits for a Leader OR would be leader. I am open to questions. shoot them on – [email protected]

GoldQuest has collapsed ,the main reason behind it was ,it did not have any product . One thing you all need to remember b4 joining any Networking business is whether it is backed by solid products or not . Secondly you need to see,the history of that company.
As far as Amway is concerned ,its there from 50 years and across 80 countries. Its a clear cut business ,wherein you get commission only if Amway products get sold either by you or by your group. For a middle class family who is ready to put in hard work but does not have money to invest ,Amway can be a lucrative option. Many people have successfully developed this business and the way Amway is expanding it product list ( From 6 earlier its nearly 140 now) ,and lowering the price ( An Amway Dynamite Deodarant- costs Rs 150 for eg.) ..the day is not far when every body will be using Amway products. The only question that can remain for you is wheter the entire group/state/country who is using the Amway Products belongs to your group or not.
As far as loosing Friends is concerned its totally your personal view , bcoz i have all my friends/family in this business and all of us are earning . This business helped me realize the true pottential of my friends and we got closer to each other ,having something to rejoice everyday .
So the choice is yours ,either you can keep cribbling and crying or you can join a strong network of Amway (like that of ours ) and Keep Smiling everyday. Contact me on [email protected] 🙂

Amway sounds stupid, one of their spokesman approached me the other day and fooled me into meeting with him, and when I did, all he talked about was how the mentors he had made so much money. What a joke.

Yes, Amway is a scam. They’ll focus on the one successful guy or leader, but ignore the massees who are losing their asses.

Regarding Amway, If you actually stuck around long enough and actually took it seriously you would have found that it takes a lot of effort and hard work to reap the rewards at the end of the day.

Regarding “masses losing their asses”, its true but so is the fact that the masses is generally too lazy to work hard in the business. But hey, if you spend loads of money buying a McDonalds franchise and go under in the first year it must be the stupid franshise that doesnt work and has robbed me of my dignity.

The masses lose their asses because Amway and the teaching system doesn’t work. McDonald’s is a proven entity. There’s no bonafide evidence that hard works equates success in Amway.

Pyramid schemes are mathematically nonsustainable. You don’t have to go down many levels before you simply run out of people to keep it going. You have to be one of the lucky ones near the top of the pyramid in order to make real money. The poor shmucks near the bottom will not make it.

every one need to know one thing, amway always present one guarantee to itz new entry distributors. if they dont like to continue in business they may with draw from the business without losing a penny. how many of the fools you talk the aabove know this fact. not only that if u got product after u using upto 30% of the product u may got 1005 refund from the company. first need to understand all the facts

No doubt amway makes FOOL new one .it is emotional cheating. It wash the brain completally. GOD SAVE from scam.only one person gains if 100 losses everything time and money.Be indian avoid amway.

Amway’s products cost to much to be competitive with retailers and the training and tools effectively take away what little profits or bonuses that they earn. It is the tools systems that is truly the scam. Click on my name to visit my blog.

If you guys are so smart about Amway please explain this: if it’s a pyramid scheme, how come there are hundreds of IBO’s who make more money and have reached a higher level then their upline?

It’s a pyramid because you have hundreds making money but tens of thousands or more losing money at the same time. Often, those making money do so off the backs of their downline, hence “pyramid scheme”.

Click my name to see my blog.

Yes. I know what a pyramid is. Most organizations and corporations in the world are pyramids. But you still didn’t answer my question. If Amway is a pyramid, how come there are IBOs who make more money and have reached a higher level then the guy who supposedly makes money of his back?

Akos, you are confused about the difference between a corporate hierarchy and a pyramid. In a corporation, the CEO might make the most money but even the janitor gets a paycheck and has cash when he gets paid. In Amway, the guys at the top make the most but the layers of downline mostly lose money because of the unfair bonus structure and the cost of training/tools. There lies the difference.

Which part of the bonus structure is unfair? How do the downlines loose money on training-tools specifically? And how many times have you’ve actually seen the marketing plane Joe and had it someone explain to you (by someone i mean a guy who makes money from this)?

Akos, an IBO who works and does 100 PV generates about $90 in bonus money from Amway. The IBO who did the work gets about $10 and the layers of uplines get $80 in bonus money. Some of these uplines may not even know the IBO who did the work. How is that fair?

Secondly, the IBO is expected to attend functions and listen to cds so they can learn that this is a good deal. Ironically, the cost of tools is why most business building IBOs end up with a net loss.

I only want to know how much stuff do i need to sale for each month and how many down liner do i need to get for each month, after that how do i calculate my money based on BV Pv, don’t how that work my up liner not giving me the right answer, she all saying i will make $3000 for month is that right. Please help if any of in AMWAY. I have 3 downline. And buy the grocery for $360 and pay $168 for registration fees in June month. How much money doI get back now. I been in Amway about month a go. I never heard this before. Now i’m in i need to get lot of information every body telling different story don’t know who to believe i do want to do that if i don’t loose any money from pocket. Please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! E-mail me at [email protected]

Anonymous,

Unless you sell a lot of products or sponsor a lot of people who move Amway products, you are likely to lose money. If you are attending functions and buying cds, you are likely to lose lots of money.

When you look into the maths that Pyramid Schemes run on, you realize that the idea of reducing the price of products by doing away with the middle-men in the supply chain – IS A BLATANT LIE. It is nothing more than a show of a grand social cause to be fed into the heads of those who visit their brainwashing campaigns.

Another such social cause they like to promote about their business model is that of MASS-EMPLOYMENT for the unemployed.

Though not in legal terms, when you grow enough to have a birds-eye view of the complete business model, you understand that it is not serious business – but a kind of fraud.

You are then filled with disgust at the way the members are duped into the scheme – all with a little dream in some corner of their minds – of becoming millionaires.

The products that Amway (for instance) manufactures are highly in-competitive in an open market both in terms of price and quality. That is the reason why this networked market needs to be created for the sale of these products.

All this is however not to say that none of the people who join these schemes make money.

After all, to make the money what you need is to add people under your network.

If you have been able to just recover (or something more) the investment that you made, what you did was to add your friends or relatives under you.

Likewise, you’ll see that the members under you who recovered their investment also did the same thing.

Some of them also may not have recovered anything at all. That doesn’t make them any more wretched than those who broke-even or earned some thousands of profits.

What you have unknowingly done is that – the group who brought the scheme into your town – you have made them richer by millions.

And all the time you were thinking you were in business, it was just an illusion. You never were in their business at all.

If you are happy and satisfied that at least you could recover your money, you have wrongly forgotten to look at the ones in your network who could not. Wrongly because, after all you are the one who pulled them into the ditch.

In an ethical business model – you grow together. In Amway, you grow because someone else falls.

My boyfriend is doing this and omg this is stressing me out to the fullest. He believes that in 3 years he will be free from his job and be able to do anything. He is so excited about it. I try to be supportive about it and just smile and tell him to keep on going. He also found God in this, which is fine or whatever…but he is even thinking about abstaining which is really annoying.

I think its complete crap and a waste of time…the development through his readings have been helpful since they are legit books but the business plan sucks. He say’s he is never going to stop…what do i do??

my girlfriend joined amway after some pressure from her family a few months ago, at first she wasnt involved much but now shes getting into it pretty big. her family didnt have much money before amway….they arent doing any better now. i support my girlfriend entirely if she wants to try this but now we’re getting into fights about it. shes in the process of joining the military as a mechanic, shows alot of promise for her but im afraid that amway is going to take that away or restrict it. her “upline” are already trying to get her willing to involve fellow servicemen(and women) and i know she will get in trouble for that sooner or later but her family and uplines think that amway is all she needs anyway. cars are her passion and im seeing amway slowly take that passion away. shes still somewhat new to amway, is there anyway to get her to see what she could be risking?

Bob,

I feel for you. Unfortunately, your girlfriend will probably have to snap out of it on her own. It me be good to just be supportive and see what happens. If you speak out against her, the upline might convince your girlfriend that you are “negative” and thus, expendable. A lot of people snap out of it after a few months, but some get hooked hard and stay in Amway for years despite losing money month after month, year after year. A friend of mine has been heavily involved for nearly 20 years and he hit platinum about 17 years ago and he’s been backsliding ever since. It’s sad and in my opinion, a waste of time and a waster of life.

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