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Capital Punishment

Undoubtedly more Chinese die on death row then rest of the world put together.
The total number of countries carrying out executions has fallen from 40 to 25 in a decade, and 129 countries are abolitionist in practice. India and America are two of only five democracies still to use the death penalty.
captial punishment
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Since a law should adhere to the evolving standards of humanity, Why do we still practice hanging?

1) how much faith do u have in the forensic and police…. what is the probability that they have fudged the evidence. I know a thousand of innocent people were booked under TADA/POTA and wasted years without trial… Would you like an innocent guy to be hanged?

2) even if the guy has committed the crime isn’t it ok if you stash him away in a solitary confinement for 20 years… long enough that he never sees the sunlight again in his youth? If we cannot create life, we have no right to take one.

32 replies on “Capital Punishment”

Interesting stats..i agree with u pegasus.
But capital punishment should not be abolished for terrorist and rapists.
If someone doesn’t respect another person’s right to live, it means that he has just lost his right to live.
Read this article.
i second Eswar Anand.

“If someone doesn’t respect another person’s right to live, it means that he has just lost his right to live.”
Now thats a line to think about!!! what you say “peggy”?? I would love to second balar!! 🙂

@balar & scorpio
2 years ago, one of the first article (and not a very well written on) was this…
http://shocking.wordpress.com/2005/06/14/who-should-be-blamed-for-rape/
you might like to go through it….

gist is:
1) the person who is guilty for all the misery that a raped person goes through is not the rapist who had 10 minutes of fun… but the society who denies the girl her right of existence… instead of giving support, it puts her under a scanner and treats the victim as a convict.
so if u agree with this statement, you might have to hang a billion souls (now isn’t it a bit too much?)

2) r u crazy to ask for capital punishment for rape???????
a rape trial is one of the most painful experiences … partly because often there is no witness and there is not sufficient awareness to preserve the evidence.
now if you vouch for a capital punishment,
a) you will prolong to trial to almost eternity… a person on death row gets a right for infinite appeals… sometimes even without any new evidence/perspective. do you want that?
b) already the conviction rate for rape is about 10%… and I do not capital sentence to be granted in less than 1% of the cases. and on the rest 99% cases it will only bring disappointment.(yes, Indian judges have a roadmap to became the market leaders in capital punishment, but still they are kind and sensible)

3) even by an eye for an eye standards…. a death for a rape is a bit too much…

will read the article and update you about the terrorists.

@pegasus
I too agree with your earliar post…but we should not abolished CP for uncivilized act like child rape&murders..
If you dont punish them, then you will see more cases like noida..we need to act strictly here.

Regarding terrorism i second vinaya comment.

@ Vinaya…
thank you for a very detailed comment on the issue. balar, you will really find it interesting

@scorpio..
it looked to me that u supported capital punishment… but good to know that u agree that capital punishment should be abolished

@balar..
i read the article… the only reason the author was vouching for capital punishment is because of deterrence.
my question…..
what would u prefer… living the rest of your life in a cage each day being pointed out for what misery u caused or simple painless death.
I am Ok for multiple life terms >100 years which chineese and american courts frequently deliver….. killing someone is inhuman by any standard and unfortunately its not a bigger deterrence then being never to be able to walk again free.

as for killing terrorist…. its same as… u and I debate.. and if i am not able to convince u, I pull the trigger and finish u and all others who oppose me off.
terrorists committed the crime because they passionately believe in their version of truth and whats right and whats wrong and they felt that this act was their duty… imprisonment is make the person realize what ills he has committed and give him/her a chance to repent and change his perspective. now does hanging achieve this?

just like u do not prosecute an enemy soldier for killing ur soldier… u cannot kill a freedom fighter for killing yours (and it does not mean, that he/she is not guilty for the misery he caused)

@balar and Vinaya….
a prison term is a very effective quarantine a much civilized solution… on the other hand as vinaya agrees… CP is barbaric and inhuman…. now lets not reduce ourself to the levels of the perpetrators of the crime.

as for pedophiles… yes its a big problem… according to a survey
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2007-04-09T195112Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-293625-1.xml
2/3 of indian kids were sexually harassed/raped…..

now tell me as a sensible person… what is the solution… killing 1-2 pedophiles will not solve the problem… will it bring back the lost childhood of the kid… will it give him/her the emotional support and courage to face the world and never be scared again?
the whole problem is much much much grave than that…. u need to have to increase awareness, increase childcare, open up conciling and helplines.

hey guys..just a little busy with doing an article..will come back and go throo this .

You again misunderstood me. I said I agree to the concept that if someone doesn’t respect someone else’s right to live then I think he/she loses his/her own right to live. In no sense I am talking about rape. I am just talking about killing someone. And for rapist I have something better in my mind ( which I know the law of court would not approve!! ).

And for your kind information I never said that It is the solution to the rapes or murders. Nothing can be done to undo what a criminal does, but there can be enough punishment to avert the re-occurrence of a similar incidence.
Talk about support, childcare, helplines etc etc sounds very good. But I don’t see them causing someone to think twice before committing the crime. These are steps to improve the behavior of society and can be done without CP being abolished. but to stop people from committing these heinous crimes, I would support very heavy punishments.

I hope you got what i have in mind.

@scorpion….
looks like I am terribly confused. but now i get ur point.

//And for rapist I have something better in my mind ( which I know the law of court would not approve!! ).//
care to share what u have in ur mind

@apun
thanks for the words in support. its been abolished in 129 countries already and is left in only 5 democracies…

as mahatama gandhi himself said
“and eye for an eye, leaves the whole world blind”

// but to stop people from committing these heinous crimes, I would support very heavy punishments.//
1) dude crime can be deterred not by harsh punishments, but by enforcing law….
which means have a system to book the criminals, and speedy trials….
whats good a capital punishment.. if the first verdict is given after 15 years and then u appeal to a higher court???

2) do u think that people in China commit less crime because 5k people are executed as compared to europe where its ZERO?

Dear Pegasus,

Rather than getting opinion on this from ideal people, let us survey the family members of deceased and ask what they want as punishments to person who killed their innocent loved ones. They want to kill brutally or want life imprisonment for criminals. Based on the results of survey we decide whether to abolish CP or not.

Thanks & regards,
Vinaya

thank you cyberkitty.

@vinaya…
i can also poll the police to find out if false encounter killings should be allowed or not.
the idea of a punishment is not to take someone’s life but to reform him, make him/her realize their mistake…
and someday turn them into good citizens

Dear All,

Rather than getting opinion on this from ideal people, let us survey the family members of deceased ones and ask what they want as punishments to person who killed their innocent loved one. Either they want to kill brutally or want life imprisonment for criminals. Based on the results of survey we decide whether to abolish CP or not. If majority is in favor of CP, let it be there, else abolish. I would like if we don’t enforce minority opinion on majority, even if how novel it is. After all we leave in democratic country where majority decides the law and not the minority. If majority wants even an uncivilized law needs to be there then minority should convince them but not enforce until minority becomes majority. Until then follow whatever majority says.

Thanks & regards,
Vinaya

@Vinaya…
thats exactly what i am trying to say…. 129 have banned it… and of the countries where it is still practiced, only 5 are democracies… so thats what the majority is…

regarding what the affected people say… trust me I am so hot blooded person that i would kill the guy who even put a harmless dent on my car…. but that does not mean careless drivers should be hanged.

Capital Punishment as I have argued before is useless and should be done away with. Vinaya has already provided the link to the post.
As Apun Ka Desh said, it is revenge mentality. No matter how you look at it, CP is not justified.
It is hardly a bigger deterrent than Life Imprisonment. I think LI could be a bigger deterrent than CP. As pegasus already said, deterrence comes from maintaining law and order and not by having inhuman punishments.
CP once executed cannot be reverted no matter what amount of evidence is unearthed later to prove the convicted as innocent. I think no judicial system in the world is infallible. No matter how perfect one thinks it is.

@Vinaya,
Polling the victims family is useless and undesirable. As pegasus said, he will kill anybody who puts a dent in his car. A man will kill anybody who steals his important documents. If all these decisions were left to the whims of the victims there will be no need for law. The victim may decide what quantum of punishment is sufficient. That will be totally chaotic. Policies and laws are not based on emotions but on sound reasoning.
The out going CJI said he was against CP but as long as it exists in the law book it can be awarded. Too bad such people do not speak out when they hold important positions.

Dear Pegasus,

I am not sure, if majority will buy your reasoning until enforced. Until then keep trying…my wishes with you. Also, I would like to recommend you to read Quran that why it recommends eye for an eye, and you may need hard work to change hearts of millions.

Also, rather than wasting energy in India, would be better to civilize most uncivilized countries.

Best of luck,
Vinaya

@polite
yups its one of the things that has been there in the fabric of culture for so long.. that people just cannot think how much harm it can do…
esp when a lot of forensic are fudged and police can be bought.
i did not knew Chief Justice of India went on record about his views on Capital punishment… but ya a lot of civilized judges also feel the same.

@vinaya
// and you may need hard work to change hearts of millions.//
//Also, rather than wasting energy in India, would be better to civilize most uncivilized countries. //
I am a Indian and it is the only country I am worried about…. and the thoughts section of the blog is dedicated with the only one purpose.. spread awareness. esp. on issues which effect us, but we choose to ignore.

//I am not sure, if majority will buy your reasoning until enforced.//
i gave u the statistics from the civilized world… what else do u want sir?

//Also, I would like to recommend you to read Quran that why it recommends eye for an eye,//
1) as I already said “law should adhere to the evolving standards of humanity”
Quaran was one of the first noble attempts of mankind to consolidate all laws… but when was it last updated?

2) Hindu, Muslim or any other religion… capital punishment is only for criminal offense… and under the preview of IPC only.
and even a 100 years ago it had the words
“only in the rarest of the rare conditions… cp be awarded”,
“even if a 100 guilty go free, not even 1 innocent should be punished”
and in USA alone, modern forensic techniques have bestowed honor back to over 50 convicts who were wrongly executed.
if it can happen in America, it can definitely happen in India too..
now isn’t CP against the very spirit of out court?

@vinaya…
i was saying on some other thread:
“I know only 4 of my readers true identity”
and of them 3 are Tamil… so 75% of my readers are Tamil.”

the point is:
Isn’t drawing conclusion based on an audience size of 17 is as big a sin as analyzing SMS POLL results?

Dear Pegasus,

This was just an example. There are many sites where majority is in favor of CP. Also, there was opinion where 90% wants Afjal to hang and 10% no. There may be emotions too but definitely the Indian community wants CP for terrorism.

Thanks & Regards,
Vinaya

“India and America are two of only five democracies still to use the death penalty.”

And with this statement all the bleeding hearts out there go into spasms of self-abnegation,

Have a look at the graph again.

America executed 50 odd people in 2006 and how many has India executed in the same year?

Not even the thug who facilitated the terrorist attack at the very heart of the Indian state.

Not even a underworld don who is involved in the murder of hundreds of innocent people in 1993. Infact he even contested the UP assembly polls this time.

That is why India is in the shithole it is and America is the superpower it is. America knows when, where and how to clean its gutter elements.

@apollo….
i agree that india has the slowest justice system in the planet…. and that is where our problem lies….
the reason why i am against capital punishment is because we have policemen who love to shoot random people just to get laurels… and then they go to any lengths to cover their tracks…
how can u execute someone based on the data collected from them?

Well we need to spruce up our justice system to make it work faster and also make the investigating agencies free of control by politicians. That might improve the scenario.But the point is in India the trend has been to give the death penalty only in the rarest of rare cases even though it remains on the statute books. I think that’s better way to go about things than to get into emotional debates about the death penalty issue.

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