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My Place or Your Place?

A Little Background:
Girl: She is a very successful and a caring lady. She purchased a nice house (whose value has appreciated many folds) and being the only child, takes care of her parents.
Guy: Also very successful. As his parents are in a different city, he lives alone in a rented apartment.

If there was something like equality of sexes, then I would expect that after marriage, the guy gives up the rented place and they all live happily ever after in the house which his wife purchased out of her own hard earned earnings.

I agree that in older times when man was considered  a breadwinner, living off the wife’s wealth had a social stigma attached to it (it still has). However in this case both the spouses have a comfortable 7 digit salaries so nobody is dependent on the other. The parents earn sufficient from their pension and investments to take care of themselves and the house has more rooms than inhabitants, so privacy also should not be the issue.

Why is it that after marriage the girl has to move in to the guy’s place?

95 replies on “My Place or Your Place?”

who said that?
first the woman has to be a ceo or somethin to purchase a house on her own
in mumbai this is no issue, most likely 80% of males would happily shift…
property is so expensive that it takes 25 yrs
to get ur house thanks to the ulca builders and politician nexus

1) this is a true incident.. and the couple are due to marry next month.
2) the salaries for male and female counterparts are almost same… and people who are not ceos can also afford to buy a place for their own.
3) the average age of a house buyer is 25-30 years. with easy EMI, and a knack of investment its not uncommon for someone to make a purchase immediately after you start earning.

Anyways the issue is not their earning capacity (which I assure you is not a problem) its the cultural issue because of which the couple is ok to rent out an apartment rather than live in a place which the wife owns.

Ankur…what do u think is the issue here?
The husband not wanting to live in a house funded by the wife or
is it living with the in-laws under the same roof ?

In my experience I have seen that husbands do not mind the in-laws coming to live with them..but they are apprehensive about moving in with them.

And all this is only in one class of people.
Lets not forget ‘dowry’ is still in practice in many parts of the country.

ya.. i had never thought it that way… its ok for a guy to live in the house, cultivate the land which he got through dowry… but if it has strings attached (as in this case) they shy away… and try to take the high moral ground of being the breadwinner.

I didn’t get the issue exactly, the guy is not living with his own parents so i would not expect him to be very enthusiastic about living with his in laws.

Apart from that, what the guys does not like most is arbitration of in laws when there is an issue. Anyways I don’t think people earning 7 figure salaries care a lot about social stigmas. It just might be an excuse to satisfy his own ego of not living off on wife’s salary.

Yes..I guess these guys fool themselves thinking they have some pride .

I don’t find anything wrong in this arrangement.It is high time INDIAN guys get over false pride.

Wow. Women willing to be the major breadwinner. Count me in. Where do I sign up?? 🙂 🙂
-An Indian guy

ankur
as u mentioned the specific details
and as the people have 7 figure sals then i think only one issue exhists, Societal or peer reaction anxiety

when a person buys a house on emi i dont think it is his/hers until the last installment is paid.
and yes this emi thing has really created a bubble in the prop mkt both here and now in bangalore

sree has a point there, so do u Ankur.It depends on the comfort level.But i think it is feer of a societal reaction as society still plays a greater part in peoples lives
Tell me how many times do people marry for love here? that is if the economic status of the hubby is lower than the wife.

sree, dowry per say is from the parents
and not the wife as the prop is owned by her
also i think dowry should be legalised !

sree waitin for a reaction on this one..

//when a person buys a house on emi i dont think it is his/hers until the last installment is paid.//
i call it leveraging and there is no harm in taking loan… in fact I would call it a smart move. Instead of blocking 3-5 years of your salary in an asset, you take a loan and invest your money in a financial instrument that gives you better returns.

//also i think dowry should be legalised !//
are you some sort of cattle that based on your ancestry, physical and mental strength and earning capacity a price should be placed on your head? if yes then please go to a cattle mart and negotiate a deal with the prospective brides. I am sure if her parents can pay for the pets and stuffed toys she likes, they won’t mind paying for the this new infatuation.

@amit
//where is that bed and breakfast deal … i m interested!! ;)//
I think most indian girls won’t mind sharing the bed with their spouses and cooking a breakfast. so I guess its time for u to get a good Pennsylvanian girl or import a nice homely Bania girl. I am sure your parents would love to know that you are ready 🙂

@sree…
you told them only about the plus points… now plz give them the real pictures by reading aloud the rest of the fine prints… after all a marriage is a lot more than bed and breakfast. 😀

//that is if the economic status of the hubby is lower than the wife.//
its feels stupid, but I have seen a lot of tension building up due to this… and it often results in the girl to either give up her career, or opt for part time (so that her salary is halved)

the guess the money matters only spoils the relationship… as long as the family leads a comfortable life, it really should not matter who earns the bread and who earns the butter.

However I have seen one case where the guy gave up his profession and to help out his wife in her restaurant…

@Ankur: considering it as a public forum i would like to announce that i m ready 😉

//after all a marriage is a lot more than bed and breakfast.// i would like to know more about that more!!

@ Amit

where is that bed and breakfast deal … i m interested!! //
Oh C’mon ,Amit .
This is just a subset of all those matrimonial columns on the net and the papers.

As Ankur said
the real pictures by reading aloud the rest of the fine prints… after all a marriage is a lot more than bed and breakfast. //
The only difference in this b&b arrangement and the traditional one is that this b&b is at the house owned by the wife.

Its not like u get a complete freebie package.
If u think that u can play video games while getting a foot massage done while ur wife is slogging to death , Sir….u r sadly mistaken.
In no time u’d find urself sans a wife and a roof over ur head at one go 😛

You are expected to pitch in ur share of income and do ur share of work even in this b&b arrangement 😛

i would like to announce that i m ready //
Amit ! Good Luck 🙂
I hope u get a great girl (b&b either at ur place or hers ) 🙂

u can use all our blogs to advertise 😉
as a good friend its free for u 😛

“If you marry before I do, then I will make a pass on your wife.”

literal translation might sound awful and irresponsible… but thats because the spirit of the joke is lost in translation.

@Prax

Tell me how many times do people marry for love here? that is if the economic status of the hubby is lower than the wife.//
I accept with shame that this is the current situation in our society.
When looking out for good alliances , the financial position of the groom is very much considered. While I wld not say its completely wrong , this being the main criteria shd be condemned. If the guy is able to afford a comfortable life , I think there shd be no other concerns regd. finance.
This is the case in the arranged marriage scenario.

But if u take the love marriages , Prax , a mature girl wld atleast consider the capacity of the guy if not the financial status. Show me how many s/w girls are going out with autorickshaw drivers ?
A guy’s education , looks , outlook , nature of work , character are all an entire package and that is what attracts the girl. It wld’nt matter if he is a millionaire or if he is leading a similar life-style as her.

If u r showing me the cases of girls eloping away from colleges with ‘some’ guy , think again.
Is that what u call ‘marrying for love’ ?
They are the only ones who go for the good for nothing road side romeos.

sree, dowry per say is from the parents
and not the wife as the prop is owned by her
also i think dowry should be legalised ! //

Dowry is from the parents…no dbt.

I simply loathe the very idea , Prax.
So..if u let me talk about it..it would be strewn with highly unpalatable words.

As for the wife’s money…I strongly feel the spouses’ money belong to both jointly and severally.

legalising dowry ?
yeah…lets first strike off ‘adultery’ as a ground of divorce for men , and then legalise dowry.

Afterall a purchased commodity has no rights over its owner…infact its the other way round.

As of now any gift given to the girl at the time of marriage by anybody is called ‘streedhan’ and she is solely entitled to the property .

I wonder how great it must be to be valued and sold in an open market 🙂
shd be a great feeling !

Statutory Warning:”If you marry before finding a girl for me, I’ll hit upon your wife!!”

well I have already used this forum for the sake of announcement!! lets see how many people see this forum.

sree and ankur
i was expecting backlash
this is where u got me wrong
i was once having a discussion in college yrs on hindu law and dowry with my late father who put up this idea to me
do people in india really marry for love ? especially if a woman has a higher income will she marry a man who has a smaller pay packet?
Marriage is a mkt and big business that powers likes of shadi.com look at the percentages sree

1.57 yrs since the constitution and with super stringent laws to prevent dowry – still dowry is very commonplace in this society and IAS n IPS officers also indulge in this practice
it is very prevalent moreso in upper classes too though i dont remember anyone taking a dowry per say in my house / family for the last 3 generations.

2. what is a dowry really?it is a british creation. it is another name for hunda or stridhan or a womans wealth or as sree correctly pointed out a gift from the parents (weather forced or not)even the jewels that she carries are stridhan

3. if these laws have failed we should change them
legalise dowry and put all of it on pen and paper in the damn marriage contract -what she got and how much it was worth…and that the parents gave it without coercion and lastly give the woman full right and her parents the right to reclaim them in case of her demise or divorce that too with interest, and also in case of the demise of the husband , this will cut out the litigation .

This will stop all the nonsense of women being destitute or pennyless in case of abandonment !which is commonplace in society especially in rural and lower income families
its easy to say gifts are stridhan but who keeps the accounts ?and who will want the added litigation
i mean this is better womans empowerment!

As for the wife’s money…I ALSO strongly feel the spouses’ money belong to both jointly and severally.

but that also depends on if they have a prenup dont it? and yes this is not a one way street …..there are also Heather Mills around if u know what i mean.

and ankur about leveraging
just a point why war rbi screaming on top of their lungs to banks to cut down on the bank loans?
we are in a property bubble thanks to these easy loans and remember last time the prop mkt fell it fell 70% and took 10 yrs to recover

also world stock mkt bubble due to over leveraging and hedge funds as correctly pointed out by a german prof on dw tv

lets see if the stock rally is for real as i expect the mkt to go down nytime just one big player has to push the sell button!

@Amit…
Best of Luck.

@Prax…
I agree with most of the facts you listed about stock market and dowry… so i will just list out where I differ.
1)//what is a dowry really?it is a british creation.//
I agree that in India dowry was basically doing a partitioning of the wealth and giving the girl her share of inheritance… and it morphed into an evil monster during the British Rule. But its 60 years (3 generations) since the British have left…. let us now take some responsibility and not blame the British for all our problems…. because British are not going to apologize or set the course right.

2) If by legalizing dowry, you mean that:
Recognize that as a payment in lieu of the girl’s legitimate claim in the share of family estates…
Then I support you. Actually its always better to do any activity in a legal fashion…
a) the authorities can regulate and keep a tab on the trends.
b) the parties involved will no longer have break laws and compromise with their conscience.
3) anything that happens under the table becomes sinister.

about stock market/property market…
if you knew what exactly is going to happen tomorrow then you can millions if not billions out of it. everybody has his theory and bets on it… the returns they get is proportional to how true their story is with reality.

hey prax i guess thats the first logical point i have heard in favor of dowry!! superb idea boss!! but our big politicians will never see into it … poor our country!!!

About market you can be right buddy …. everyone has got one speculation … its time who decides who is right and who is wrong!!

@Amit
i have heard in favor of dowry!! superb idea boss!! //
Amit…u want b&b at wife’s expense and also dowry legalised
I guess u need more than luck and this forum to help u :))

sree :-))
with B&B – everythin is possibe in india

amit
this isnt my idea this is the idea of an ex gov servant- my father who was well versed in hindu law and huf laws and income tax act..
he always felt that indian problems can and should be better dealt using old hindu laws and not latin laws b n rao took over in wholesale from the british common law while drafting the constitution

recently i heard a horror story on real life wife burning 5 minutes from the commissioners office in mumbai
and what could be done about it
maybe ill blog as i really really want all ur reactions !
will inform when ill post!

@Prax

if these laws have failed we should change them
legalise dowry and put all of it on pen and paper in the damn marriage contract -what she got and how much it was worth…and that the parents gave it without coercion and lastly give the woman full right and her parents the right to reclaim them in case of her demise or divorce that too with interest, and also in case of the demise of the husband , this will cut out the litigation .//

It is legal to give gifts to a bride at the time of marriage and it can be registered in her name even now..so what difference does it make?

OK..when u agree that the spouse’s money belongs to them jointly and severally is she allowed to give her streedhan to her husband in times of need ? what if he loses it during a course of business ? Is he indebted to her?

Whether shd brougnt in any money or not the husband is bound to maintain her .
what else can Law do ?

//i mean this is better womans empowerment! //

There are several laws to help the women , Prax , but how many are knowledgeable enough to use them ?
How many women complain about domestic violence ?

True empowerment is ‘awareness’ !

and even if coercion or demand is made do u think the bride’s parents wld reveal it ?

OK…another important aspect…there are some families where the parents of the bride holds the dowry amount as a carrot to lure the right ‘catch’ !

Just tell me this..what do u intent to achieve by putting all the streedhan on papers and maintaining accounts , that is not already being done ?

//this isnt my idea this is the idea of an ex gov servant- my father //
i must say… your father had some amazing ideas. you should write more about him. 🙂

i have known a lot of violence due to dowry… even sati…. i guess thats just because hindus are at core a Hippocratic barbarian… at one hand they worship the females and on the other hand they feel sorry when a girl is born.

//at one hand they worship the females and on the other hand they feel sorry when a girl is born.//
That was not the case .. girl baby born was always respected but the systems distorted … the form of religion we see has adapted to so many bad things that it has lost its sanity.

Well Prax I agree with ankur, you should write more about your dad’s ideas.

@Sree: I guess the idea is to make the system accountable and accept the reality that there is dowry being given in almost every wedding. If we put it on paper then it would be easier during the course of law in later life crisis. I guess you can enlighten more on the law stuff!! why dont you write about the laws available to women??

yes sree point well taken but it is a start nonetheless as most people wont loose a marriage certificate and i think it is less of a hassle

hindus are at core a Hippocratic barbarian…comeone ankur u know that this aint true- r u a H B ?
this happens in all societies but not in most cases
and women nowadays r gettin more aware
Look at Islam …. and the treatment to women
and see what the christians did to the women too
in history they were a lot more barbaric than us

the problems is people in india r lawless
and minorities exempt from laws
be it crossing the road or the track or
pappu yadav wanting the rajdhani on track 1

//r u a H B ?//
and that being?

//in history they were a lot more barbaric than us//
yups.. and its high time that we also reformed.

//pappu yadav wanting the rajdhani on track 1//
i feel that the policitian is the direct reflection of the masses.

amit the basic premise is indian problems need indian solutions
we should solve our probs in our local methods
that is a lot better in the long run and people arnt aleanated look at the current legal system
dont educated people run a mile away from a court or litigation
when a person looses a mobile does he ever expect the cops to catch the culprit or does he file a complaint for procedural req ?
same with deposits or assets of a person
an indemnity costs more than sum assets of most deceased poor people – those who dont will or nominate

r u a Hippocratic barbarian
sorry ur getting idealistic and sarcastic and a bit too self blaming here
hindu law got reformed a lot before 1950
it is the mohammedan law that got more intolerant
thanks to vote bank and cases like shah banoo

and it is not like we should reform
we are reformed and those who arnt
have to decide themselves

i should write about the incident i was talkg about
this friends mom asked me what can be done?
ill post soon bt am busy

exactly… the reforms like any revolution has to come from within…
do u remember the story of a guy helping the butterfly which was struggling to free itself from the cocoon….
and external intervention at a premature stage only harms.

@ Prax
yes sree point well taken//
thanks

but it is a start nonetheless as most people wont loose a marriage certificate and i think it is less of a hassle //
ok..so there is proof that some gifts were given to her during her marriage.
Why do u need to put it in the marriage certificate. You can legalise the gift and have a proof independently.

is she allowed to give her streedhan to her husband in times of need ? what if he loses it during a course of business ? Is he indebted to her?//
u did’nt answer this.

@Amit
If we put it on paper then it would be easier during the course of law in later life crisis.//
hmm..ok

I guess you can enlighten more on the law stuff!! why dont you write about the laws available to women??//
sure..I will pick the important ones and write about them.
but if u have anything specific in mind , let me know.

sree ur impossible to argue with
there are ifs and buts everywhere u
really sound like my sis!or my aunt!

ur too radical good ur not a muslim
or ud be in duktaranemillat

// is she allowed to give her streedhan to her husband in times of need ? what if he loses it during a course of business ? Is he indebted to her?//
what do u want the guy to do….. wash dishes till he is able to repay the loan.. or declare a bankruptcy… even worse stick around with the girl just because he can no longer afford to divorce her

@ Ankur
wash dishes till he is able to repay the loan.. or declare a bankruptcy…//
exactly !
So what does a piece of paper matter ?
There’s only a certain point upto which law can interfere in the institution of marriage…and its best left that way.

//duktaranemillat//
whats that

//but she has the patience to argue i dont//
ya she is student with lots of free time at her disposal…. anyways its hard to argue with her… she will spend hours on researching a obscure topic and finding a loophole 🙁

@ Prax
there are ifs and buts everywhere u
really sound like my sis!or my aunt! //
now shd I be calling u “bhaiyaa” or “beta” :))
How about a ‘rakhi’ on the 18th 😉

why ! Looks like u have a tough time convincing ur own kith and kin 🙂

instead of all this , I’d appreciate it if u can give me solid reasons for the change u want !

ur too radical good ur not a muslim //
no comments !
but I love being a Hindu.

or ud be in duktaranemillat//
now what’s that ?

Ankur
ya she is student with lots of free time at her disposal…. //
she will spend hours on researching a obscure topic //
free time ?
obscure ?
I just thanked u 🙁
I hope these are not back-handed 😛

i wonder how a lawyer would write a love letter…
there would be an offer…
it would be divided into neat sections…and clauses and subclauses…
not to forget the default clauses..
It would spell out the consideration and the compensation 🙂

then all statements would have a reference to a footnote number where the statement would be explained in detail… so that there’d be no room for misinterpretation or ambiguity
or for the letter to become ‘voidable’ 🙂

kith n kin
ohh they are way past that , my mom is a lot more matured and my grandmom who was 4th pass was eeoons more !
this is what happens when women are far too liberated

ankur u research dm

sree
in constructive dialogue acceptance of the others point is vital if it is valid even if u dont fully support it,else the other person wont bother talking
or laying down their opinion and u will shut them up
ur too zealous and i always find its my way or no way in ur style of arguement !

ur too zealous and i always find its my way or no way in ur style of arguement ! //
I dont get u , Prax !
Why shd I accept something I dont find acceptable ?
and why shd I be forced to compromise when I dont want to ?

I genuinely find the idea of legalising dowry impractical.

If all that u want is some pleasant talk , let’s move to the humor section !

i just saw the contents of ITR 2
the most relevent it form man i just woke up
this form is serious shit
reminds me of the old form 3 but way worse
non sal people have a hell to go thru!

in constructive dialogue acceptance of the others point is vital //
are u saying ur views were’nt acknowledged ?

shocking ?
not in the least…
remember this is shocking.wordpress.com 🙂

from around comment 50
————————

I feel that dowry should be viewed/transformed as a way of bringing money into marriage institution from both parties for new family’s comfortable living.
Assuming that
(1) Husband is doing a job/earning
(2) Wife does not work and is not interested in working.
I think that in this case dowry is acceptable and perhaps needed.
( as both parties will have hand in family’s finance) .
In all other cases it is not acceptable.
Perhaps the system started when this assumption was mostly truth and deteriorated to its present state (Assumption is no more true but we belive in effect rather than cause……. 🙁 )

@suri…
a house maker is not like a typical male drone…. rearing, baby sitting, cooking, and taking care of the household chores is really a full time affair. so lets not link dowry with the earning capacity of the female.

do you think dowry to be the payment for all the bread and cereals the wife will consume in the next 40-60 years? i think that is not a right trend.

Full time affair. Accepted. But this is not a socialist economy. Some sevices have more value than others. And this is not a free world. Whoever has control over money has control over decisions. And abt “feeding kids”.. Whoever has time. otherwise baby sitters. As per my understanding this is how it works in western world right now…

@Suri

I wonder what kind of society u r in .

But this is not a socialist economy. //
what a great way of looking at marriage !
But I guess u have a point . I have seen many marriages where huge dowry is involved..how the guy shivers the moment the wife’s name is mentioned. Afterall when she gets her money , she gets control too..not just the financial affairs..the guy’s very small activities too .
And some spineless guys revel in it .

There is compromise at all levels.
Looks , compatibility and other aspects take a back-seat.
Only the amount of dowry he gets , matters.
Its really a revealation to know that self-satisfaction and happiness is sold to the highest bidder.

Some sevices have more value than others. //
really ? It would be great to fix a price to love and affection..ooops…sorry..I asked the wrong person.
who wants those unwanted stuff…anyways they wont buy ur next month’s grocery.

And this is not a free world. //
so how much is a wife paid for all the services rendered by her ?
atleast these things u can fix a price going by the prevailing market rates.
but..its a sad thing that quality is compromised in these emotionless services.
what’s quality when u get so much money !

Whoever has control over money has control over decisions. //
where there is control there is no relationship.
but ofcourse there is money.

And abt “feeding kids”.. Whoever has time. otherwise baby sitters. As per my understanding this is how it works in western world right now…//
apeing the western world !
high time we followed that too…the moment a wife does’nt like her husband , she leaves with ‘her’ money faster than u can say ‘adios’ .

Anyways…what do u do with the surplus dowry amount after u deduct the money spent on her up-keep ?
who is to pay for the kids ?
or they supposed to work too ?

I wonder if these guys find true happiness at the end of the day !

:))

I was just trying to identify root cause of dowry system.

And more over i think if u go though my comments rationally than emotionally,
you will find me against dowry system as it is prevalent now in india.

@ Suri

I am glad u r trying to make it a joke 🙂

rationally than emotionally //
I am so sorry ,Suri..I belong to the major group (hopefully) that consider marriage a more ’emotional’ relationship than a ‘rational’ deal !

btw..
//you will find me against dowry system as it is prevalent now in india.//
really ?

//really ?
@sree

Dowry is not practiced ??wat a joke? if u are a south indian pls dont talk abt dowry..after all the gold mines are seen in the weddings..

well m sure you are aware of this things..dont you?

Dowry is not practiced ??wat a joke? if u are a south indian pls dont talk abt dowry..after all the gold mines are seen in the weddings..//

Hey Nitin…
Did u understand for what the response ‘really’ was given ?

I am a South Indian and I agree that the system of dowry prevails in many parts of the country.

I dont think it is the groom alone who wants his bride decked up like a christmas tree…its also the bride and her people who likes that avatar.

sorry i didnt relate u r comment abt dowry…

got carried away…

But,there is a very big social implication when u say “I dont think it is the groom alone who wants his bride decked up like a christmas tree…its also the bride and her people who likes that avatar”…i will explain it in a separate blog…

sorry again

Hey ankur,
i thought ,this thread was dead..
I can’t promise,but i will surely post it later..
as you see.. am not feeling like blogging these days.. too much occupied.

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